Rome and the US

[~Praetoria~]

I think the reasons for the fall Rome as a civilization and the US' current progress are very familiar, as in the corrupt leaders, terrorist/barbarian attacks, price increases, weakening military, crime rate increasing, the rest of the world catching up in technology, many enemies, and the list goes on. why did I bring this up? I started to discuss how every one of the wor;d's leading civilizations has collapsed in one way or another, sure their influences last but, the civilization itself is never the same. (my parents and grandparents wouldn'tl isten to what I had to say so I brought the discussion here)

[Victrix]

I first have to say that I'm not sure that this topic belongs here. Modern politics, non-historical controversy, etc. With that said:

The only resemblance that America bears to Rome are the design of buildings in Washington and the political organization of a Republic. We've got corruption, yes, but corrupt politicians have been around forever and generally, the law catches up with them. We fight wars, yes, but not in the name of conquest and plunder, but of the liberation of others and security. We give an enormous amount of money to the international community and its causes, asking nothing in return (look to our response to the African AIDS situation for a small example.) If one is born poor, they actually have an opportunity to advance in society through hard work and being smart (rather than bribes or military service exclusively.)

These are just a few of my reasons for America continuing to exist for a long time. My favorite, however, was developed entirely on my own. We have a permanent raison d'etre (sorry to the Francophonic users of this forum for the lack of proper marks.) We were the first country on the face of the earth to tell the government what it can't do in its founding document, rather than telling the people of their responsibilities to the government. Any responsibilities are purely intelligent and largely optional (military service &c.-I must say that excessive taxes are a bit frustrating.) It's a government, in the words of one of the greatest men in history, "of the people, by the people, and for the people," and I do not see it "perishing from the face of the earth" any time soon.

Sorry for the (semi) rant. I'm reading some Ayn Rand right now, and she's really impacted me a lot.

-Matt

[Praefectusclassis]

Matt is completely right. The modern politics have to stay out of the discussion from now on. By all means, discuss the reason why other empires failed, but no predictions about the modern world. That subject is Verboten!

[Jona Lendering]

The book to read on the Fall of Rome is Alexander Demandt, Der Fall Roms. Die Auflösung des römischen Reiches im Urteil der Nachwelt (1984). It ends with a catalogue of 210 factors that have been mentioned as "cause", varying from Aberglaube, Absolutismus, and Ackerslavernei to Zentralismus, Zölibat, and Zweifrontenkrieg. I can not remember having seen a better book in English.

[~Praetoria~]

oh sorry, but take a look at the vast majority of the people who are telling our gov't to do, the vast majority of young people of voting age are now in gangs, and we have a really high crime rate

[Virilis]

Deleted, sorry, got carried away :wink: ....

[Johnny Shumate]

I agree with Matt.

The only land in France the US wanted after WWII was enough to bury our dead.

Johnny

[Victrix]

I honestly have to apologize for replying to this topic. I think I've offended some people on here with my opinions, and I should have cut my post after the first sentence. I've asked for this topic to be locked, even though it's not mine, to keep anyone from feeling uncomfortable and to keep it from blowing up any further.

With apologies and respect,

Matt

[Jona Lendering]

There's no reason the apologize, but it is better to terminate this subject.

Let's finish on a positive note: here is a truly great American whose critical message was universal, and still needs to be heard. The big difference between the Roman empire then and the U.S.A. today, is that a voice like this can exist in America, and was never possible in ancient Rome. That's a reason for optimism - a little bit.

On this note, I propose we end this political debate.

[Caius Fabius]

while this is not a topic for Roman Army Talk, it is often discussed. Perhaps you might want to start a discussion on yahoo groups or something, but not here.

Many professors and comentators have compared the USA empire to the Roman empire. There are several books on the subject.

This is, however, not something we want to get going here, because there will be many honest opinions, with lots of emotion and could lead to flaming, or other rudeness.

It is an interesting question, but let's discuss it somewhere else, please. Re-read the rules for posting if you have questions about what we don't want to discuss here on RAT.

Thank you

[Praefectusclassis]

And with that, we may consider this topic closed.