Crete: helmets and stuff

[Anonymous]

Check this page out for an assortment of Greek objects. Of interest per this thread is the clay statue of Athena who is wearing a Cretan style helmet, dated about 650. I think this is the same one found on Cythera, but attributed to Crete based on the helmet style. There is a similar open faced crested helmet noted as a Spartan votive figure, found at Olympia. What seems to make the "Cretan" helmet distinctive is the brow plate. I guess.


http://www.personal.kent.edu/~jlarson/g ... lides.html

LYKAON
(Ralph Izard)

The helmet there looks rather like the Deepeeka "Achilles" job; perhaps you could use that.

[hoplite14gr]

Well in the end the helmet's designer might find himself in "historical context" :lol:

The term "Cretan" was coined from the Helemt of Axos found in Crete.
At the same period there are many specimems of the "standart" Corinthian in many Crete Meusums.
Elements of the "Cretan" exists in various Meuseums here but they are not displayed to the public.

Unless you are determined to make that style Ralf the "standart" Corinthian is OK for an archaic Cretan hoplite.

Kind regards

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

Actually, the quote I am getting is based on Gioi's helmet 2 pic. Minus a few of the decortive elements. It just hit me I wanted a Cretan. I like the brow plate and the surface treatment. I already have some Corinthians. (Can't have too many helmets, or amour.) But then, I am interested in the Archaic period anyway... The stylistic type does not have a distribution that exactly coincides with Crete, and may be a taxonomic convienience, but the distribution of finds seems to hint as Crete as the focal area of origin.

I would love to see what else is from that area...

LYKAON
(Ralph Izard)

[hoplite14gr]

Some more warriors and helmets from Sparta that wa influenced from Crete.
http://www.sikyon.com/Sparta/Art/sparta_peg06a.html

[hoplite14gr]

http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/Var ... Greek.html

Is again on line.

Kind regards

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

Here is an image of a Cretan helmet I have not seen before:

www.thecityreview.com/f05santr.jpg

This helmet was in a Sothby's catalog, November 2005, and dated to the mid-seventh century.

Also, I have references to items, in particular shields, found in the "Idaean Cave" from north central Crete. A Google image search turned up nothing but tourist stuff. Anyone know about this site or have any images?

LYKAON
(In Greek mood)
otherwise
Ralph Izard

[hoplite14gr]

This is trully unusual.
The first "Illyric" with a high crest that I have seen.
I will try to see what I can get in the Greek web pages about "Idean Cave armoury".

Kind regards

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

There were five helmets and nine parts of cuirass along with an assortment of mitras found at Afrati, Crete. A total of 30 pieces. Two of these helmets are in the Met Art and shown in Comeru's post on this thread. He also posted some of the mitras. There is mention of something called the Crowe Corslet in the article. The publication is restricted to academic institutions, and won't allow peasants like me to view anything except the first page of the 1974 publication:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0004-3 ... size=LARGE

Does anyone have any further on this? Like images?

Thanks

Ralph Izard

[Dan Diffendale]

It's only 3 pages of a book review, Ralph, and no photos, but here it is (for personal, non-commercial use only, of course):
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dpd/earlycretanarmorers.pdf

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

Danno,

Thanks for the link, and I solemnly swear I will keep the review for my own personal use...

I just got back from the local library and from trying to get an inter-library loan on Early Cretan Armores. I was told they do not do inter-library loans. I had to ask three people before I found one that even knew what one was. Only in New Mexico...

Thanks,

Ralph

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

I just got a few weeks ago the hard to find Early Cretan Armorers, 1972 by Herbert Hoffman. It has 60 something high quality plates, and has a wealth of info on the Afrati and related finds. It is not cheap at $150, but Ancient World Books told me they have several copies. I also found several of the out of print Anthony Snodgrass works.

What I get from Hoffmann and Snodgrass, is that archaic armor styles on Crete derived from two sources, Cyprus and the Greek mainland. Helmets and some body pieces, seem to come with a tradition and artisans, from Cyprus, which seems to be influenced in turn from from Urartu. This archaic Cretan assemblage is sometimes referred to as the "Orientalizing period." Some Sphinx designs on mitra of the 7th century look very Egyptian, however. The several "Argos" style breastplates are more curved in profile, and have less sharp waist edges than the mainland "Argos", which seems to be the immediate design origin. The ultimate origin of the "Argos" might be the Hallstatt culture, however, who got the idea from an earlier Mycenaean design, in a cirquitous route. The "Argos" seems to have no Mid-Eastern counterpart, and is indigenous to the Greek mainland. Some elements of Cretan decoration and metalworking tecnique seem to go to the mainland through Kythera, however.

There are a number of shield bosses from the Idaean Caves in north central Crete indicating a use of a small round shield prior to the introduction of the Aspis, called the Omphalos. It, and and a similar spiked shield originate from Cyprus, also. The transition to the Aspis seems to be slower than on the mainland.

Most of the examples from Axos, Afrati, and the Idaean Caves date from the 7th century.

LYKAON in Greek mood
otherwise:
Ralph Izard

[Josef]

about those pictures though , this post is kinda old and those pictures linked are gone would be nice if someone could post some again

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

Try here:

http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_art/a ... 0F64889%7D

and

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:AE8 ... 49-.50.jpg

The good shots of the helmets and mitras on Comersus's post of 7 Aug 06 are down and I cant find them...

Gioi can you restore them? The mitra shots were from Hoffmann.

I think everthing on page two works though...


Ralph
Thanks...

[hoplite14gr]

A corinthian minus nose guard an with scalops. A most unusual piece.
Nice info on shields Ralf.
Shield bosess of Geometric period have been found in Delphoi and I am told there is one on display in the Desfina Museum.
Desfina is near ancient Doric Lilea and this is the reason many associate embossed shields with the Doreans.

Kind regards

[john m roberts]

Very interesting helmet. Any idea what those doodads on the sides might be? Attachments for side-plumes or tails, maybe?