hello,
I would like address these statements as I am very greatly interested in the ancient warhorse etc
Quote:the domestication of the horse first took place in the Near East around 3000 BC.
You mean Southwestern Asia? Any authority on that? – via your research etc, because what you say it does contradict Anthony and the Russian, Ukrainian and other Central Asian research regarding horse domestication on the Eurasian Steppe, namely 4000BC Eurasian steppe where first true spoked wheels chariot-like vehicles have been found -
http://www.hartwick.edu/x6723.xml
http://users.hartwick.edu/iaes/horseback/index.html
Quote:The Arabian horses we now know of we're bred in the Middle East (Iran, Iraq, Egypt, etc.) from the 8th Century AD. Before that time there were probably Barb horses, but that still doesn't explain why the Arabian horses differ so much in skeleton (i.e. they have 17 ribs instead of 18 ) from all other breeds in the world.
well actually that is not uniformly true - some Arabians do have 5 lumbar vertebrae and some do not, the same is true with other old breeds – eg. Spanish Colonial horse in the Americas aka the Prior Mountains or Kriger Mountains or Cerbat herds of mustangs in US. It seems to prove that these equines come from some ancient stock (Central Asian or Ukrainian tarpan most likely) but because they do have long croup and short back (actually Arabians seem to have the longest croup of all domestic breeds)and that they are superb riding animals with strong bodies.
Quote:The Equus Caballus Libycus according to findings in Newstead dating from 1st Century BC has the well known Arabian 'dish' in his head and might as well be a forefather of the Egyptian/African Arabian horse or a Barb horse. These horses were found in a Roman army camp in England.
Barb or Berber horse has had no dish in his face but rather a so called Roman Nose or even a straight profile. But this dished profile could mean two things
a- that some Newstead units came all the way from the east off of the Roman World bringing with them Caspian horse
b- this horse was the so called ancient Numidian (bred there since the Bronze Age) whose conformation later had been changed via intensive breeding and importation during the Islamic era.. In such case this skeleton does represent a rarity and is a treasure of the ancient horse husbandry
Quote:I am not an insider to Arabian horses but there are many different strains of Arabs around. The original Arab horse is called Asil, but in Iraq they call the original Arab Khamsa. The Northafrican tribes did not possess Khamsa in the 7th Century AD. Probably the Polish, French, Russian Arabians which are used as race and showhorses nowadays came from imported Arabians and have not much to do with this more original breed of desert-Arabians. By the way, the French Arabians used on the track look much like Thoroughbreds and story goes that at some point in recent history Thoroughbreds have been used to make these Arabians speedier.
Well, that is interesting – they did keep very careful breeding books in Poland (also early Polish buyers bought Arabians for other European royal breeders especially one aristocrat name count Rzewuski ) since late 18th century and all their Arabians came from Syria and Arab Peninsula interior, thus they were true asil horses. While it is true that the type that predominates in Polish Arabians is Koheilan, perhaps due to the ravages of teh Russian Revolution and Soviet-Nazi destruction.
While it is true that the Arabians changed in appearance while bred in Central Europe, for they became more beautiful and larger, but that happened because of careful breeding that sought to produce a specific conformation of the Arabian horse there' and also because of the milder climate, more nutritious feed and lack of intensive use - racing young animals for a year or two does not seem to be comparable with the exhausting use of the desert raids and raiding warfare of the Arabs.
Quote:There are also people who say the Iberian breeds were the origins of the Northafrican Barb horses which travelled back to Spain with the Moors in 7th century AD and were 'discovered again' then.
Annelies
Well, the genetic charts by Gus Cochran do explain a lot, and also at this website info as the owners -Deb Bennett - does open some eyes, so to speak.
http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_ ... alian.html
http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_base/origin.html
Also do consider this – Numidians rode very fine, light horses (perhaps the Namibian desert horses resemble them in conformation as per their lithe and slick bodies adopted to the harsh desert environment) of very ancient stock -see above (question of small horse versus pony seems to me to have been best finalized in Germany where horses below 115cm at withers are ponies, above are just small horses – like famous Caspian breed that seems to have been the ancestor of the Arabian horse along with the ancient Numidian ) that allowed them to become very formidable cavalry during the Republic and Empire; later on, 5th century AD the Central Asian Alans attached to the Germanic Wandals conquered the whole Roman Africa – influx of Central Asian/steppe horses into North Africa. Later on, during the early 6th century AD we find that Berber tribal troops rode ... camels, not horses while fighting for the Belisarius against the Wandals. Simplifying it a lot , took Arab conquest to bring back horses to the Berbers - the horses of Egypt and the Syrian-Persian desert with their Roman Nose and that influx of various breeds for ever changed the ancient Numidian horse in North Africa.
sorry for this longish posting
Dario
bachmat66 (Dariusz T. Wielec)
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