Question concerning an event during the Dacian Wars

[petrinus]

during the first dacian wars how did the rebellion of the germanian governor lucious antonius saturninus affect the war and troops in moesia, and when did this occur exactly? you see i was researchimg the LEGIIAPF and there was a reference to that rebelion stifling a probabal victory, id like to know much more about it and the influences exerted on the campaign as a whole, the effects of the rebellion and ultimate outcome. also what position politcaly that left germania, moesia and pannonia in after the fact...how did that shape things for ill or not in the years to come? thanks all ye learn-ed men (and women)

[D B Campbell]

I'm not sure what your difficulty is, Jason.

Tettius Julianus had probably defeated the Dacians at Tapae in AD 88 -- Domitian had a flurry of imperatorial acclamations late that year.
Antonius Saturninus launched his revolt on 1 January AD 89.
And Domitian was in Rome late in AD 89 to celebrate a double victory, over the Dacians and over the Chatti (who had collaborated with Saturninus).

As regards II Adiutrix, it was my impression that it travelled from Britannia to Pannonia (AD 87), and probably began work on the new fortress at Aquincum. Moesia doesn't seem to enter the equation.

Or have I missed something?

[petrinus]

i shall have to go back in my spare time, lol, and find the reference, but i know i read that LEGIIAPF were recalled from britania after fighting the ordovice celts and supporting other legions pushing into scotland, they were recalled in 86 AD as i read to enter the dacian wars, now my knowledge of pannonia and moesia are little, im learning and i have read they were present in both, so im trying to clear this up. one im in afghanistan so my material and time is limited, two, theres so much conflicting and confusing information out there, as in ive even seen LEGIIAPF originating at misenum in 66AD! not the case that was LEGIO I, II was ravenna, 69/70 AD or so say most.

so am i to understand that the rebellion produced little to no debilitating effect on the war in moesia and that the 1st dacian war concluded with victory in 89 AD? as far as my legions involvemnet i need to clarify perhaps a sub unit was involved, that happened alot with them especially later on....or as ive seen it suggested.

thank you in either case

[petrinus]

ahhhhhhhh, at Viminacium,Moesia.....yes? seems they were based there with a host of other legions, any info on this, credibility and such? i'll explain why its important more another time, but i find this mentioned quite a few places, am i missing something maybe?
still havent found that damn reference to saturninus' revolt compromising the dacian victory, maybe they said detractor and i read defeat? possible i dont sleep much, it is 0155 here!!!!

[Flavius Promotus]

The uprising of Saturninus had probably only limited effects on the Danubian wars - with two exceptions:
a) XXI Rapax was sent to the middle (or lower?) Danube as a punishment for the mutiny. This decision indeed lead to the legion being 'punished', since XXI Rapax was most likely identical with a legion which was completely annihilated by the Sarmatians a few years later.
b) Domitian had already been a quite mistrustful person even before the uprising of Saturninus, and then even the army proved to be unreliable. As an effect he seems to have acted in especially harsh and intolerant ways after this incident. Example: instead of negotiating with a group of envoys from the Germanic tribes at the middle Danube, he simply had them executed - which led to even another war. Domitian was then forced to end the still ongoing war with the Dacians and had to come to an agreement with the Dacian king Decebalus = he had failed to avenge earlier Roman defeats against the Dacians and the emperor's already strained relations with the conservative elites at Rome deteriorated even further.

Maybe the sudden unrest among the Quadians and Marcomans was to some extent connected with the uprising of Saturninus, too? Rumours of a new civil war in the Roman empire could have spread swiftly among the Germanic tribes at Rhine and Danube. ("The Romans fight each other just like 20 years ago - let's use this opportunity and attack them!!!")

So, while the uprising of Saturninus probably did not have any immediately visible effects (the rebellion was crushed within a short period of time), the hidden effects may have been more problematic.

Just my two denarii

[petrinus]

Peter Connolly's The Legionary

yeah this confirms the legIIapf upper moesian presence i was commenting on sometime ago, it was viminacium as i suspected.

[Arahne]

Well, there is no firm evidence that Viminacium was legionary base in the times of Domitian wars. Besides that there is no epigraphical source for presence of II Adiutrix in Moesia Superior in those times.

[Alexandr K]

Hi,
regarding the revolt of Saturninus and the units involved in suppressing it, the article by Holder on the following website can interest you:

Holder, P. A.: Exercitus Pius Fidelix: The Army of Germania Inferior in AD 89, ZPE 128, 1999, p. 237-250.

Greetings
Alexandr

[petrinus]

thank you for the link, laudes could i bestow it, very interesting though a touch diminishing towards my legions honors "pia fidelis" (they had theirs prior!) seems rather like a blanket award and not so special when an entire force recieves it, but i guess its good, they got it twice then? vespasian and domitian? i'll need to look into this business with trajan some too. at any rate appreciate the recommend.