08-13-2006, 12:27 PM
So, Obi-Wan... we meet again (on another thread) 8)
Firstly, that's a rather misleading statement. Here's why:
Yes, the original Britons who formed a British 'enclave' in Armorica
in the 3rd c. were probably recruits to the Tractus Armoricani (the
equivalent of the Saxon Shore Forts in Britain). But they could have
been recruited from anywhere in Roman Britain. Many British recruits
to the army were surplus to the requirements in Britain, and had been
siphoned-off to the continent for some time. No, the refugees mentioned
by Gildas in the mid 6th c. as having escaped the Anglo-Saxons by
sailing to Gaul (Brittany/Armorica) between 450 and 500AD were not
necessarily all from Wales. For a start, we're told that refugees from the
East moved West and that refugees crossed the sea to Gaul. There is
no way to prove a scenario where the Eastern refugees simply took
the places in the West vacated by the Western refugees who went to
Gaul. In fact, if the refugees are coming from the East, then it is far
more likely, surely, that these are the ones sailing to Brittany from ports
in the West, and that the Western Britons remained where they were.
After all, if their own land was not yet threatened by Anglo-Saxons,
then why would they give-it-up to be taken-over by Eastern refugees?
So we need to be specific about which Britons were sailing across
to Brittany in which century, for a start.
Secondly, modern Bretons are associated with modern Welsh because
their languages share a common ancestor - Brythonic - which would
actually have been spoken by everyone in lowland Britain in the
5th c. whether in Wales or the East. So, judging by the language link,
alone, it's again impossible to differentiate between Eastern and Western
5th c. Britons as being the ancestors of the Bretons.
So it seems, rather, that most Bretons would have been descended
from British refugees escaping the East of Britain. :wink: And to
finish with, here's another quote from Darth Vader in the climactic
light-sabre duel at the end of Star Wars I:
"So, Obi-Wan, the pupil has become the master!" 8)
Cheers,
Darth (I mean... Ambrosius - I mean... Mike) :lol:
Quote:(1) It so seems that most British that went to Brittany seem to come from Wales and not from the eastern Lowlands.
Firstly, that's a rather misleading statement. Here's why:
Yes, the original Britons who formed a British 'enclave' in Armorica
in the 3rd c. were probably recruits to the Tractus Armoricani (the
equivalent of the Saxon Shore Forts in Britain). But they could have
been recruited from anywhere in Roman Britain. Many British recruits
to the army were surplus to the requirements in Britain, and had been
siphoned-off to the continent for some time. No, the refugees mentioned
by Gildas in the mid 6th c. as having escaped the Anglo-Saxons by
sailing to Gaul (Brittany/Armorica) between 450 and 500AD were not
necessarily all from Wales. For a start, we're told that refugees from the
East moved West and that refugees crossed the sea to Gaul. There is
no way to prove a scenario where the Eastern refugees simply took
the places in the West vacated by the Western refugees who went to
Gaul. In fact, if the refugees are coming from the East, then it is far
more likely, surely, that these are the ones sailing to Brittany from ports
in the West, and that the Western Britons remained where they were.
After all, if their own land was not yet threatened by Anglo-Saxons,
then why would they give-it-up to be taken-over by Eastern refugees?
So we need to be specific about which Britons were sailing across
to Brittany in which century, for a start.
Secondly, modern Bretons are associated with modern Welsh because
their languages share a common ancestor - Brythonic - which would
actually have been spoken by everyone in lowland Britain in the
5th c. whether in Wales or the East. So, judging by the language link,
alone, it's again impossible to differentiate between Eastern and Western
5th c. Britons as being the ancestors of the Bretons.
So it seems, rather, that most Bretons would have been descended
from British refugees escaping the East of Britain. :wink: And to
finish with, here's another quote from Darth Vader in the climactic
light-sabre duel at the end of Star Wars I:
"So, Obi-Wan, the pupil has become the master!" 8)
Cheers,
Darth (I mean... Ambrosius - I mean... Mike) :lol:
"Feel the fire in your bones."
