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Dura Europos Scutum
#16
Hm-hm!
Have anybody of you made a curved rectangular scutum with decreasing thickness towards the edges/rims?

I was just thinking about how could it be constructed (originally)?
First gluing together the wooden strip layers and then taper the surface with a plane or rasp?
Or...?
Valete,

József Janák
Miles Gregarius
Legio I Adiutrix
Pannoniciani Seniores
Brigetio, Pannonia
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#17
I think probably the pression made by the tension needed to adapt the wood to the curvature make it naturally to be thinnest at the borders... Probably the breaking of the internal estructure of the wood in the center added to a glue concentration make that efect.

So if any body have a authentic made scutum, why do'nt take a look on the thickness and share with us the values?
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#18
Quote:I was just thinking about how could it be constructed (originally)?
First gluing together the wooden strip layers and then taper the surface with a plane or rasp?
Or...?

"Or you take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them..:"

Just kidding :wink:

Perhaps if the strips for the vertical middle layer are significantly thinner towards the edges than they are in the middle (e.g. 3 mm vs 1 mm ?). Just a suggestion...
Using a plane or rasp might also have been possible (perhaps both methods were in use?)
Florian Himmler (not related!)
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#19
"So if any body have a authentic made scutum, why do'nt take a look on the thickness and share with us the values?"

Thanks Cesar, I also tried to point to that...

"Perhaps if the strips for the vertical middle layer are significantly thinner towards the edges than they are in the middle (e.g. 3 mm vs 1 mm ?). "

Florian, it was the first thing that came into my mind as well, but how would you make a wooden strip which is 3 mm thick at the center and 1 mm (!) at both ends with period tools?
Got it?
Right!
Now make hundreds of them which are of the same size without any significant difference or else the pieces won't fit properly and you will need "correction work" after assembling and gluing the pieces.

In this case I think it's much more easier to make wooden straps of the same size and do the rest after gluing.

But of course it's just a theory.
Valete,

József Janák
Miles Gregarius
Legio I Adiutrix
Pannoniciani Seniores
Brigetio, Pannonia
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#20
Ave omnes,

what's about 3 layers of panels cut in different sizes? Each size a few centimeters smaller than the next one at each side. Somewhat like a stair shaped pyramid / ziggurat :wink: ?

You'll come out with a staggered rim section, which might be leveled / grinded by a rasp or special axe (adze). Each layer would be only 3mm thick. Some wooden scale ship model hulls are built that way, using much more layers, off course.

If later covered with linen, one won't see where the different panels merge.

Just a thought.
Greetings from germania incognita

Heiko (Cornelius Quintus)

Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
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#21
I honestly don't see a problem with planing the shields thicknesses down. I'm positive my own dad could do it, he being a joiner all of his life, with a simple plane. He wouldn't want to, I'm sure though. :wink: Has anyone tried to paint with encaustic paint? Just look at the Fayum portraits.

I also have to correct myself and say that oval shield 619 is described as being probably dished. I missed that bit last time, sorry.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#22
Quote:Florian, it was the first thing that came into my mind as well, but how would you make a wooden strip which is 3 mm thick at the center and 1 mm (!) at both ends with period tools?
Got it?
Right!

No, I don't get it Big Grin
I was writing about the middle layer, which consists of VERTICALLY arranged strips. I admit that making strips for the two horizontal layers with a shrinking thickness towards both ends might be pretty time consuming, but for the middle layer you could perhaps use strips with varying thicknesses, but a consistent thickness for each strip.
Got it? :wink:
(PS: Have completed copying the data for your group - rejoice!)

In my opinion the Romans HAD to use a plane at least for the oval shields, since they consisted of wooden planks, not thin strips.
On the other hand, Roman planes look very much like modern ones, so I don't think they were faced with unsurmountable difficulties.
Florian Himmler (not related!)
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#23
Florian:
What a fool I am! :oops:
A rather high percentage of people have problems distinguishing the directions left and right.
I got the same problem with horizontal and vertical.
I totally misunderstood your previous post, so you were absolutely right, that IS a good idea.
I'm sorry or better Verzeih mir bitte!
Valete,

József Janák
Miles Gregarius
Legio I Adiutrix
Pannoniciani Seniores
Brigetio, Pannonia
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#24
For the shield to get thinner vertically, would the horizontal planks be thinner the higher and lower they were?
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#25
Avete,

I've a new question about the Dura Europos scutum : is the image of the shield on this website inverted horizontally ?

I ask because my Dura shield has the mirror image of the entire design painted over it. Mine was made by Deepeeka. Now I know that for some reason pictures are often inverted horizontally and published in books and online.

Does anyone know what the true image looks like ? Did Deepeeka mess up or did they get it right ?

Thanks for any light anyone can shed on this issue.

[Image: scutum1.jpg]

~Theo
Jaime
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#26
Quote:I've a new question about the Dura Europos scutum : is the image of the shield on this website inverted horizontally ?
Looks like it. Although the bird on your shield looks like a pidgeon, whereas the original eagle...

Btw, I bet that you have the more original one - I could just imagine Yale 'inverting' their image because of the swastika - this way, it 'turns' in the oppositie (i.e. not the nazi) direction!! Confusedhock:
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#27
Hi Robert,

Quote:Btw, I bet that you have the more original one - I could just imagine Yale 'inverting' their image because of the swastika - this way, it 'turns' in the oppositie (i.e. not the nazi) direction!!

Yes, the swastika was the genesis of my interest in the shield's original design. I thought mine were 'wrong' because I noticed they were reversed in published photos. So, I was going to repaint them so that they spin the right way. But I took a closer look and noticed the entire design is reversed.

I wish I could be sure about mine being the more accurate one, but I've looked at other Roman swastikas from mosaics and they are spinning in the non-Nazi direction just like in the Yale photo.
This may not mean anything since perhaps the Romans used both versions ( :?: ).卐 卍

Btw, I'm surprised there isn't a 'swastika thread' in the 'Roman History' section. There's one in the off-topic but it's more of a general discussion about modern uses of the symbol.

Quote:Although the bird on your shield looks like a pidgeon, whereas the original eagle...

It could pass for a bird of prey, couldn't it ? :oops: :wink: :lol: Yes, I intend to fix that too.

Thanks, Robert Smile

~Theo
Jaime
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#28
And i always thought it was a dove of peace...Pax Romanus and all that :lol:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#29
Pax per fortitudinem.
Peace through strength.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#30
Quote:I ask because my Dura shield has the mirror image of the entire design painted over it.
Yours looks more "inspired by", rather than a precise copy, Theo.
And, yes, it appears to have been "flipped" (maybe to avoid copyright issues?).
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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