Late Roman Impression

[Demetrius]

Ave Amicis,

I am putting together a Late Roman (4th Century) mpression and have a few specific questions.

1)What are some good sites for uniforming and weapons.

2)Does anyone have a good how-to guide on the scutum

3)Does anyone make the belts or have any how-to guides

thanx

Demetrius

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

Welcome to RAT Demetrius!,

don't forget to put your real first name in your signature (forum rules).

We have several late roman reenactors here so i think that they can help you (although most of them are attending an event right now so it may take several days for you'll get a reaction). I'll move your thread to the Re-Enactment & Reconstruction section.

for a start, one of our members (Vortigern studies) has a how-to guide on making a scutum on his website:
www.fectio.org.uk/articles/articles.htm

[Demetrius]

Thank you Jerome,

Bruce Charles Willis (that is my real name and I always insert my middle name)
aka Quintus Demetrius Romulus
Legio VI
Southern California

[Theodosius the Great]

Hi Bruce,

Do you think you'll come as a LR to MTH ? I'm coming as a Constantinian officer, so if you come there might be at least three of us.

BTW, I'll send you a PM to let you know where to find suppliers.

Wow, up till now I was the only late Roman in California. 8)

Hope to see you at MTH :!:

Theo

[Demetrius]

Ave Theo,

I just read about you on our Group site and I was going to try to track you down. Make that two of us. Here's the short and sweet. I am new to Roman but an long time re-enactor. I too want to do Constantine period. In fact, I might be going to Turkey next summer. I have a blue panonian, new spatha, and several yards of blue linen that I will turn into a tunic (if that color is authentic). As far as MTH goes, I would like to do this maybe for an hour or so. My primary committment is as a Legio VI member, but Dio has actually encouraged me to do this at timelines. I am just abou to return to USA from 3 months in Thailand and have only been doing some light projects here. I still have a long way to go in finishing my first impression. If there is a way you can hook me up with a belt, pants, footwear, and belt I will do it. I should have the tunic made by then.

Vale,

Demetrius

[Theodosius the Great]

Demetrius,

Please check your private inbox here on RAT. I sent you a list of suppliers for belts, boots, weapons, and armor.

I am new to Roman but an long time re-enactor.

I'm practically still new to both so you have the advantage :wink:

I too want to do Constantine period. In fact, I might be going to Turkey next summer.

Cool. I hope you get to see Constantinople.

I have a blue panonian, new spatha, and several yards of blue linen that I will turn into a tunic (if that color is authentic).

I too have a blue panonian but according to Graham Sumner's books it seems that the available evidence for blue tunics suggests that it was used by marines and cavalrymen. Vegetius mentions Roman marines in Britain wearing a "Venetian blue" (that's my book's translation). Plus, there's a cavalryman's tombstone whose tunic seems to have been originally painted blue. Arrian also mentions blue as one of the colors worn by cavalrymen.

So I guess you'll be either a marine or a cavalryman Even in this late period, it seems that white and red were the most common colors for infantrymen. I have one of each.

Do you plan to eventually buy any armor ? Or do you want to go for a "light infantry" impression ?

As far as MTH goes, I would like to do this maybe for an hour or so. My primary committment is as a Legio VI member

Right, I know what you mean. I'm going to do two or three different things, but will probably just be a regular legionary for a whole day. How long will you stay at MTH ? I'll be there on Saturday & Sunday.

Looking forward to meeting up with you. 8)

Theo

[Demetrius]

Ave Theo,

TUNIC COLOR
I have blue because in Bangkok here I am getting 100% veggie dye linen for 1$ a yard at the old Indian garment market (honestly, it looks like a Roman markey with all the slime, smells, loud noises, and cavernous felling but great cheap Indian food) so I will do marine for now. Eventually I am going to go red or white, because I am infantry at heart.

ARMOR
yes, but long term

STUMBLING THROUGH HISTORY
I will be there both days.

Thanx for the links

I almost made it Constantinople a few weeks out on a cheap flight from here but it would have meant hanging out in Bahrain for 20hours. NO THANK YOU. Thailand may be hot and full of bugs, but it is very safe and very friendly and I have my home here.

See you in few months

Vale,

Demetrius

[Theodosius the Great]

I have blue because in Bangkok here I am getting 100% veggie dye linen for 1$ a yard at the old Indian garment market

Wow, at those prices I would do the same :wink:

I almost made it Constantinople a few weeks out on a cheap flight from here but it would have meant hanging out in Bahrain for 20hours. NO THANK YOU. Thailand may be hot and full of bugs, but it is very safe and very friendly and I have my home here.

Oh well, maybe next time then

See you in few months

Safe travels.

Vale.

Theo

[Demetrius]

Ave Theo,

Thanx for the well wishes. I hope to have it together by next OFMD

Vale Demetrius

[Dardanus Lupus]

Ave!

I would too really like to see any guide to late roman belts and baldricks, how do you support your spathas?

[Theodosius the Great]

Dardanus,

You may see for yourself on these old threads :

scroll down about half way down until you reach Vortigern's post

And...
Third Century baldric

[Graham Sumner]

too have a blue panonian but according to Graham Sumner's books it seems that the available evidence for blue tunics suggests that it was used by marines and cavalrymen. Vegetius mentions Roman marines in Britain wearing a "Venetian blue" (that's my book's translation). Plus, there's a cavalryman's tombstone whose tunic seems to have been originally painted blue. Arrian also mentions blue as one of the colors worn by cavalrymen.

Before some people get upset that my books suggest blue tunics were exclusive to the marines I would like to point out that the books also illustrate a marine in a red cloak and tunic based on paint traces from an original marines tombstone from Crete. The cavalry tombstone does not, I recall, show a full tunic as it is only a head and shoulders portrait. You could therefore interpret the blue painted material around the neck as either a cloak or a scarf. Some figures in the 3rd century Dura Europos frescoes on foot and on horse wear blue tunics.

What is more clear however is that late Roman military tunics had very narrow sleeves, tight fitting around the wrist like the ecclesiastical garments today which derive from them. One or two tunics from Egypt survive to this day which display these features and they may well be rare examples of military tunics. Examples of these tunics and patterns are available from a number of sources which might involve a bit of detective work but I would urge you to copy these as opposed to just any Coptic tunic you find on the Internet. Aitor Iriarte's tunic illustrated on this forum is one of the best recreations I have seen and is based on a tunic found at Palmyra.

Graham.

[Dardanus Lupus]

Dardanus, You may see for yourself on these old threads :

Thank you! I tried to search, but didn't found those with either "baldrick" or "third century belt". Odd...

[Virilis]

Sampsa, here are some books which might help?:

"The Late Roman Army" by Pat Southern & Karen Dickson
"Roman Military Equipment 2" by Bishop & Coulston
""Barbarian Warriors" by Dan & Susanna Shadrake

The so called "ring buckle belt" was used in the third century and it is a very simple item (easy to do it yourself). I think it is quite hard to know the exact appearance of a genuine roman baldrick due to the sparseness of hard evidence, many times it must have been a simple long leather strip?. In "Barbarian Warriors" there are some nice reconstructions (it`s scope is a bit later than third century but there are some nice belts and baldricks anyway...)