Posts: 403
Threads: 7
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
0
For comparison here is an Hellenistic encheiridion from the British Museum where only 21.4 cm of the blade is preserved. The Osprey xiphos is supposed to have come from a larger than life statue and is 32.2 cm long, Sekunda says this is slightly larger than the real thing. He quotes Plutarchs Life of Lycurgus where an Athenian mocks these swords and claims a juggler could swallow them. King Agis III replies "But nevertheless we will strike our enemies with them."
Peter Raftos
Posts: 195
Threads: 2
Joined: Jul 2006
Reputation:
0
Greetings dear "Peter Raftos"...
That's a FINE example of Spartan "Xyale"! This is the photo I was talking about!
Great!
P.S.: Some researchers saying, that this sword was EVEN MORE wide and MORE short... But, THAT'S the image I was talking about! Thanks, you save me from scan it...
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
Posts: 403
Threads: 7
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
0
Glad to be of service. The suspension of the xiphos from the telamon/baldric differs in representations. This representation has two suspension loops on each side of the scabbard for the telamon to run through. But the scabbard below has the telamon looped around the wider scabbard mouth of the kopis.
Peter Raftos
Posts: 195
Threads: 2
Joined: Jul 2006
Reputation:
0
That's A FINE example of "Telamonas" and the PROPPER lenght of it!
Nice, again!
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
Posts: 403
Threads: 7
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
0
Khaire Lupus,
This is a line drawing of a gravestone from the 4th Century which is in the Sparta Museum. I still think that this is the Lakonian xyale and the short Lakonian xiphos is what I have scanned previously. In my Liddell - Scott classical greek dictionary xyo means to whittle or scrape and a spear scraped smooth is a xyston and the tool to do this is the xyale/xuele. The doru-xoos is the maker/shaper/scraper of spears. Sekunda says the xyale was distinguished by its length. He quotes Xenophon (Anabasis 4.7.16) who says that the Chalybians carried a sword as big as a Lakonian xyale and used it to decapitate their prisoners. This suggests something larger than the Lakonian xiphos.
Peter Raftos
Posts: 195
Threads: 2
Joined: Jul 2006
Reputation:
0
Khaire "Peter Raftos"...
...listen dear friend. I was ALWAYS knew about the "XYELE" discription above and that photo you scanned.
BUT! I don't put my hands on fire, because I've checked my Ancient Greek dictionary before few minutes and in "XYELE" (not "XY-a-LE") came up the following:
"Short tool for agricultural (!) work..."
That means ONLY a short "scimitar" kind of tool, SO... a WEAPON called "XYELE" MAYBE was a sort curved weapon, one edge blade - like my dear Spyros said!!!
So, "Dum... Spiro... Spero" and MAYBE I'm wrong (among MANY others) and I believed that the SHORT sword of Spartans (that they were using durring the Persian Wars), was ALIKE with the LATER sword that they used in Peloponnesian War!
The "DRAW" method I mention, is ACCURATED! I'm TOTALY sure on this!
So... a "scimitar" sword, like... a Japanise KATANA or WAKASASHI, would be MUCH MORE easy to draw like that FAST and leathal!
The Japanise swords were "scimitar" like, BECAUSE of that!
So,... you MAY are right!
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
Posts: 195
Threads: 2
Joined: Jul 2006
Reputation:
0
Hmmm... I just called a friend of mine and he told me that he read in a pre-production album of "Lord of the Rings", when the director of "WETA Studios" (the guys that made EVERYTHING for the trilogy) said, that this FINE long dagger that Aragorn was using (a fine Elvish curved long dagger), was INSPIRED by the Spartan sword!
More evidences?
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
Posts: 195
Threads: 2
Joined: Jul 2006
Reputation:
0
What can I say, guys?
I've checked my books (almost... ALL of them!) and I didn't find any mention of this curved weapon as the famous "XYELE"; although, I'm strongly believe that this '4th C Gravestone Sparta Museum' of "Peter Raftos' " post, is VERY-VERY interesting and with that discription from my dictionary I've wrote about, looking MUCH MORE accurated information for the Spartan "XYELE"!
Hmmm... Tomorrow I'm going downtown for some bussiness; I'll CHECK this issue in bookstores...
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
Posts: 403
Threads: 7
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
0
That sounds great. I think the xyale is just the doric dialect form for the attic xuele. The Anabasis has another story (4.8.26) where a Spartiate called Drakontios, had joined the 10 000 on their expidition had been exiled from Sparta as a boy because he had accidentally killed another boy with his xyale.
The stelae uncovered in the temple of Artemis Orthia depict these curved blades as well.
Peter Raftos
Posts: 195
Threads: 2
Joined: Jul 2006
Reputation:
0
Indeed, dear "Peter Raftos", indeed!
More & more, I'm supporting this NEW (for me!) theory!
About the dialect, YOU'RE RIGHT! Very nice, for a non-Greek fellow!
Good job!
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
Posts: 403
Threads: 7
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
0
The marble stelai and some inscribed altars are connected with their donors. These were children which had successfully won some contest for which the blade was the prize. There are a lot of them ( about 71 in pretty good shape and fragments of otheys) and they date from the 4th C to the 1st C. Usually they bear the name of the victor one is domated by the victors sister. It seems the victor actually placed his xyale in sockets on the stele as a gift to the Godess. In one case the stele has cutout sockets to accomodate 5. In one or two examples the xyale was still in the marble. It is interesting to note that they are not all one uniform shape.
Peter Raftos
Posts: 195
Threads: 2
Joined: Jul 2006
Reputation:
0
Gee, man,... are you working in a museum or something? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nice photos!
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
Posts: 403
Threads: 7
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
0
No I am just a good internet researcher. I must confess my ancestors came to Australia in the 1920's on my mothers side and in the 1890's on my father's side. Her family were from Kythera and his from Ithaki. However, I speak only 'kitchen Greek'. Despite that I have always maintained a perverse interest in my heritage.
I really love this forum because it brings together people who really want to share and learn.
Now back to the original thread, I have attached a roman version of the suspension rings because I haven't come across a Greek one yet but I imagine they would be similar.
Cheers
Panayiotis Raftopoulos
Peter Raftos
Posts: 403
Threads: 7
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
0
Let's try again :oops:
Peter Raftos
Posts: 195
Threads: 2
Joined: Jul 2006
Reputation:
0
Did you knew that Ancient Ithaca is... not the modern one?
Historics says, it's probably Kefalonia (or Leukada?)...
In Homer's "Odyssey", there are LOTS of landscape discriptions, NONE of them even close to modern Ithaca; but! In Kefalonia (or - again - Leucada), THERE ARE some VERY-VERY ALIKE landscapes and LANDMARKS, as Homer said!...
Anyway... But to topic, to say... damn, I'm NOT THAT good Net-researcher!
(BTW, off topic - fellow, HOW FAR - in airplane's hours - is Australia from Greece and HOW LONG is New Zeeland from Australia?... One of my FEVORITE place to visit, is New Zeeland - when I saw the ORIGINAL landscape from "Lord of the Rings" DVDs special features, I was shocked!)
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
|
