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Anyway... back in topic... about the Ancient Greek "Telamonas".
It was (as far as the historics says) NOTHING more, but a tangled ("Kotsida", in Greek) of two/three (different colored) lace/string.
That's it!
Anything else you watching is a LATER version, Hellenistic or Roman version...
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
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I will have to challenge that theory. That is Dorpfeld's theory, from early last century, which has been challenged since the mid '70s The Phaidon Press book Quest for Ulysses by WB Stanford and JV Luce cover's this ground and puts Homeric Ithaka back on Ithaki. I read the same descriptions and it can't be Leukada because in Homer's time it was a peninsula and the modern ship canal hadn't been built. Homer describes Ithaka as an island. Kephallinia is pretty good in parts to use horses and Athena says to Odysseus Ithaka is unfit for driving horses. Dorpfeld has no arguments that are based on archeology or mythology to support his hypothesis.
But I am biased :wink: .
(I'll get back to you on those flight times but in 1997 when I visited Hellas it took forever; and I haven't visited New Zealand since I was a child - some people tell me the Maoris are still cannibals :lol: )
Peter Raftos
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In most cases I agree with you the kotsida would serve the pupose for the xiphos but I think that a leather strap with some squares cut out ( so it looks like a ladder ) would be stronger. Probably these were used for the kopis which is heavier. See Boston 97.368 attached.
Peter Raftos
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Well, we REALLY CAN'T tell exactly what we watching in this pottery-paint.
And... besides that, Ancient Greek artists didn't pay THAT MUCH of attention, in SO small details, in a LARGE scale and interesting sceen...
My opinion...
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
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OK if I leave Sydney at 15:50 on the 22nd July and travel ( Sydney - Singapore - Bahrain - Athens) I will arrive in Athens at 14:00 ( Athens time on the 23rd of July with those two stopovers. If I leave Sydney at 07:15 on the 22nd July and travel straight to Auckland in New Zealand I will arrive there 12:10 on the 22nd July. Hope that answers your travel questions.
Peter Raftos
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Gee... in the SAME day, I'm leaving to Sicily, my friend...
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
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Peter is right on the dialect difference. H ("ee" sound) is A ("aa" sound) in the doric dialect. Personaly though I belive that before Philip and the hellenistic armies there was no uniformity in balrdics. It was question of personal taste and meterials availability.
Kind regards
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Does any one have any clear pictures or diagrams of the configuration.
I am try to put together a baldric together at present.
From vase paint seemthey seem to hang at the hip other look more at chest level.
I was wonder if the baldric may have been adjustable.
From experiments we done in the Sydney Ancients in close formation it much easier to draw your sword in a tight formation when its at chest height. I interested in what others have in the way of Archaeological and experience evidence.
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About the xyale think:
Seyffert, Dictionary of Classical Antiquities: The short, slighty curved, one-edged sword of the Spartans.
http://www.ancientlibrary.com/seyffert/0705.html
Quote:Does any one have any clear pictures or diagrams of the configuration.
I am try to put together a baldric together at present.
From vase paint seem they seem to hang at the hip other look more at chest level.
I was wonder if the baldric may have been adjustable.
You speak for both of us Craig. I would really like to know.
Spyros Kaltikopoulos
Honor to those who in the life they lead
define and guard a Thermopylae.
Never betraying what is right,
consistent and just in all they do
but showing pity also, and compassion
Kavafis the Alexandrian
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Yes but 2 centuries ago there was not enough archeological evidence toi support this interpetation or disprove it.
Kind regards
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I bought a nice book about Sicily's Ancient Greek City-States (since I'm going there in a month) and there is a DORIC pottery-art, showing PERSEAS killing the DRAGON and saving ADROMEDA, holding a curved long dagger... SIMILAR with Spyros' info about "XYELE" (or "XYALE" if you like...)
I'll try to find a scannner and post it.
aka Romilos
"Ayet`, oh Spartan euandro... koroi pateron poliatan... laia men itin provalesthe,
...dori d`eutolmos anhesthe, ...mi phidomenoi tas zoas. Ouh gar patrion ta Sparta!"
- The Lacedaimonian War Tune -
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From memory Perseus's weapon is called a harpe and these seem different depending when and where they are depicted. The first vase painting is dated to ca 500- 540. Its Beazley Collection number is 206339 and I think it is from the British Museum. The Beazley Collection number of the second vase is 201820 from ca 490 and it is living in Munich.
Peter Raftos
