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The disks of the signum.
#16
Quote:
Dagann:2vab1xav Wrote:Do we really know what the disks on the signa mean?

I have read several interpretations.
-Since the maximum disks is 6, it could be the the number of the centurie

Actually, the tombstone Aurelius Alexandrus, Signifer of LEG II, has 7 phalarae on the depicted signa, so clearly they cannot represent the centuria..

I think that there may be an assumption here about the Roman army in general. Because so much of what they did has a 'modern' ring to it (carreer structure, rates of pay, tactical doctrine, etc. etc.), we often 'assume' that many other characteristics of a modern army obtain. We forget that the Roman army was an ancient army that ceased to exist some one and a half millenia ago!

One of our assumptions seems to be that they always did things in certain ways - so (for example) received wisdom is that there were 8 soldiers in a contubernium, 10 such units in a century, 6 centuria in a cohors, etc. But, do we know this always obtained for certain? Example: the exposed barrack blocks at Caerleon have more than 10 paired contubernia rooms (one has 12, another 14). We also know that the size of a legion (manpower) could vary and was increased at certain times.

It seems to me to be dangerous to assume that a cohort always had only six centuria in it. Consider the main purpose of the signum (as opposed to the aquila or imago). It must have functioned as a rallying point in battle. What could be simpler than to have the century number represented by the number of discs? This would be easy to see and there would be no requirement for any other detail to be there. If there was a case where a unit had seven centuries, rather than 6 or 5 or any other number, why not have 7 discs there for this case?

Caratacus
(Mike T)
visne scire quod credam? credo orbes volantes exstare.
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#17
Very good point! We should not always assume that our facts are solid. However, it was my understanding that centuries were identified by the name of the centurion, or his position (hastatus prior, etc.). IS there any suggestion that centuries were ever numbered? I didn't think there was. There is a scene from Trajan's Column that shows two signa side by side, and both have 5 discs. Presumably these should be from different cohorts, so why are they right next to each other if they both indicate "5th century"?

Valete,

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#18
Perhaps they were the 5th century from different legions?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#19
Quote:However, it was my understanding that centuries were identified by the name of the centurion, or his position (hastatus prior, etc.).

Yes, the centuria were certainly known by the name of the centurion concerned. We have several so-called 'centurial stones' at Caerleon that came from the amphitheatre walls. These carry the name of the centurion whose unit was responsible for building a given section of wall. There are other cases where things like helmets carry inscriptions that show that so-and-so, of the century of whoseit owned the piece.

However, the problem with having a century known only by the name of its commander is that when the commander leaves (dies - fairly common with this grade of officer who led from the front), the century name would have to alter. There was a similar problem in the 18th century British Army, where regiments were known by the name of their colonel! I am pretty sure that I have seen insciptions that refered to the century within a (numbered) cohort - if you number the one, why not the other?
visne scire quod credam? credo orbes volantes exstare.
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