The disks of the signum.

[Dagann]

Do we really know what the disks on the signa mean?

I have read several interpretations.
-Since the maximum disks is 6, it could be the the number of the centurie.
-It's the age of the unit: 1 disk= 1 century.

I was thinking -i know it could sounds stupid- could these disks symbolize the unit experience.
One disk for a unit of newbies and 6 disks for an elite unit?
So that with a quick glimpse, officers can know what are the experimented units and the green units.


Or could a disk represent a victory in battle or a victorious campaign?

[Tib. Gabinius]

We really know exactly what they are: phalerae, given to the units like to normal soldiers, its called donna militiaria.

Its mentioned on several sources, but i guess its more easy to read about it.
e.g. Bonner Jahrbücher 157, Bonn, 1957 e.g.
Already Webster, the imperial army or Adrian Goldsworthy wrote about it, so you can also take a look in english literatur.

[Matt Lukes]

Do we really know what the disks on the signa mean?

I have read several interpretations.
-Since the maximum disks is 6, it could be the the number of the centurie.

Actually, the tombstone Aurelius Alexandrus, Signifer of LEG II, has 7 phalarae on the depicted signa, so clearly they cannot represent the centuria.

Are you sure it's so clearly known that they're awards Tobias? Not that I doubt it, but I've only ever read that there were theories about their meaning- specifically on a signum that is.

[Tib. Gabinius]

Yes we can be sure of that. Zonaras 7,21 tells us about whole troops earning phalerae.
Josephus 7,1.3 describes that also the signs were part of donativa.

And the signs of the praetorians show clearly donativa like coronae muraliae and so far.

First i ve got to mention that the disk also are visiable at multiple aquila signs, e.g. at the breatplate of the primaporta augustus.

Another grave tomb of Mainz show 4 discs.
Mailand, Verona and Brescia owns tombs and relifs showing 3 discs.

[M. Demetrius]

Slightly off this topic. On several of the pix I've seen lately of Aquilae and Signa, etc., there is a beak-like hook about half way up the shaft. What was the purpose of this, a handle/grip? or what?

[Tiberius]

Most likely, they were used to drive the signa quickly into the ground. Placing your foot on the "hook" to drive the shaft into the ground is easier and faster than trying to jam it in with both hands. The "beak" was turned down to make retracting it easy, i.e., a better grip. If the hook is placed too high up the shaft, a quick foot plunge will snap the pole. But if placed correctly, it is a most effective way of planting the standard to prep for an attack when time is not your friend.

[Paullus Scipio]

Most likely, they were used to drive the signa quickly into the ground

...actually, just the opposite !! If you look at most depictions ( excepting those where the artist has deliberately shortened the pole so as to depict the upper half ) the handle with down- turned hook (opposite to a foot-piece) is placed far too high to be used as suggested.

In fact, the handle is there to assist in pulling the standard out of the ground. Among the superstitious legionaries, it was considered a very bad omen indeed if the "the standards refused to move" i.e. stuck, or were difficult to pull up. On occasion this led to troops refusing to march.On the other hand, the standards "falling" was also a bad omen so they did have to be put in fairly firmly.
The handles were a pragmatic way of ensuring this evil omen did not occur.
You can see from this why the standards would not be rammed into the ground, spade fashion

[Tiberius]

"In fact, the handle is there to assist in pulling the standard out of the ground."


Paullus,

Is that known, or an opinion? Actually, depictions of vertical objects, especially on carved surfaces are subject to spacial proportion, i.e., the artist's attempt to keep the subject and his surrounding objects equal. There is no attempt at lineal 3-dimensionality. There, things like upright javlins, furcas, etc, are not proportionally depicted. No need. So the placing of the hook on the depiction is meaningless as far as "where it should be." It need only be there. Some depictions show the hook beak up, some down.
As you said, it's important that the signum does not fall. It's easy to drive the shaft into the ground with two hands if the ground is soft. That, of course, is not always the case. Even on a hard surface, if the butt spike is "coned" enough, the shaft can be sunk with one smooth move of the foot. In some cases, the hook will allow one to bury a shaft relatively shallow, while the down turned beak holds it in place. Or, perhaps it's all a coincidence that it works so well. But, then again....

[Paullus Scipio]

Is that known, or an opinion?

- well known !

e.g. the latin for 'to strike camp' is signa tollere lit; 'to lift out the standards'
Furthermore, many depictions show the down-curved handles at waist height and a crossbar near the foot which would have served the function you describe, and also limit penetration into soft ground......

[Marcus Julius]

... and also limit penetration into soft ground......

It would also provide additional stability in very soft ground.

[Adam Brown]

I’m new to this period of history so please excuse my ignorance.

I’ve been trying to work out the significance of the badges on the signum and I’ve been unable to get a very clear picture from what I’ve found so far. I realise this thread has been dormant for several months but rather than start a new thread I feel it would be better to revisit this one.

My limited research up until now has been through the Osprey Men-at-Arms/ Elite books and the internet and I’d appreciate any pointers to more detailed reference works. I’m sorry the references mentioned above aren’t clear to a novice like me.

From what I’ve found, and what this thread seems to confirm, is that the exact significance of the badges is unknown.

I’ll summarise what I’ve got so far and hopefully you’ll be able to put me right.

I know about the spear head or manus tip so no questions there.

The next thing on the shaft was a crossbar. Could a signum have a name plate instead, or would that only apply to cohort and legion standards?

Next the philarae. They would sometimes have an image but am I right in saying they would mostly be blank?

Would a blank one signify that century being a veteran of a war or campaign?

This is the bit I’m not very sure about. If it wasn’t blank it would have one of the following images:

1. A zodiac sign. This was the birth sign of the Legion during the year it was raised or the birth sign of the person who raised the legion.
2. A non-zodiac effigy. Possibly relating to the origin of the unit, or the Legion, or a favourite god.
3. A wreath. Would that denote an honour or award to that century?
4. A number.

There could also be crescents instead of philarae. I’ve seen text saying this badge refers to either a campaign in Syria, or as a reference to the god Mithras, is this correct?

The cup at the bottom with the fringe I’m assuming is a hand hold for the signifier which stops his hand slipping up the shaft and has no other significance.

The Osprey book on the Praetorian Guard has a signum with ‘castle’ emblems but I haven’t seen a reference to that elsewhere. Would that mean that is specific to Praetorian centuries?

I’d appreciate any feedback on these points.

Regards

Adam Brown

[Caratacus]

Legio II Augusta certainly had the capricorn as it's symbol - and there are a number of carvings, monuments, etc. that use this. The legion is supposed to have been one of those either raised or retained after Actium by Augustus and adopted his birth sign as their own. The 'official birthday' of the legion is September 23rd, also the birthday of Augustus.

Some of the other additions you refer to seem to have been awarded for feats of bravery or actions. These include the 'corona muralis' (for taking an enemy town), 'corona aureus' (golden crown) and a 'corona navalis' (naval crown - presumably for acting as marines somewhere). It is also the case that some of the plaques attached certainly carried the name of the unit. A commemorative plaque to one M. Pompeius Asper has two signa, showing all manner of decorations, which also include winged victory figures as well as scorpions (another example of a birth sign?) and an imago and an eagle surmounting a crown.

This would all tend to support Valerie Maxwell's suggestion that decorations were regularly awarded to whole units as well as individuals and that sometimes these were reflected in the titles that the units carried, for example civium Romanorum - i.e. "of Roman citizens", implying that the unit of auxiliries had, at some stage, been rewarded with a grant of Roman citizenship for their bravery. This would not, of course, have appeared in the title of a legion since, by definition, they were already 'Roman citizens'!

[Matthew Amt]

It's possible that even the Romans of the Empire didn't know the exact significance of some of the parts of the signum. Like many religious ceremonies, there were some VERY archaic aspects whose origins may simply have been forgotten or mis-remembered by that time.

I think the "cup" at the bottom is a modern exaggeration of what is actually just a tassle. It's been a long time since I did any research, but as I recall it seemed that Trajan's Column wasn't showing a solid cup at all, even though they are often interpreted as such (particularly in Victorian reproductions of the carvings). Don't remember what I saw on grave stelae!

Matthew

[Adam Brown]

It's possible that even the Romans of the Empire didn't know the exact significance of some of the parts of the signum. Like many religious ceremonies, there were some VERY archaic aspects whose origins may simply have been forgotten or mis-remembered by that time.

Matthew

That is something that had occurred to me that over the years the original meaning for some attachments had been forgotten and another meaning was attached to them.

What I can't understand is why so many philarae are blank in illustrations. I would have thought if they had some symbolism then they would have had an image on them. Is it the case no-one knows what was on them so they are just left blank?

Regards

Adam

[marsvigilia]

[quote="Adam BrownWhat I can't understand is why so many philarae are blank in illustrations. I would have thought if they had some symbolism then they would have had an image on them. Is it the case no-one knows what was on them so they are just left blank?[/quote]

One possibility is that additional details could have painted on.