08-13-2006, 01:17 PM
Hi Agraes,
Arthurians are most welcome. :wink:
That's right. 8)
Another good point! (Even though it is only a theory about
the plague, it would explain the lack of cultural integration, since we do
know that Mediterranean trade did only exist with the West.) 8)
Good point. Of course, we know from the Laws of Ine in
Wessex that Britons were not only recognised as being 'different', but
were of less value in Law. So there doesn't seem to be much equality
between Britons and Saxons.
But the trouble is, we have no evidence for the supposed
hiring of Anglo-Saxon foederati in 5th c. Britain - except the single
specific case of the hiring of the Jutes in Kent. None. The assumption
is always made that other foederati must have come here because the
assumption is that the entire Romano-British garrison was taken to
Gaul/Rome in 410AD. Says who? There's a scribal-error in Zosimus
for Bruttium, in Italy, which is always assumed to mean 'Britannia',
where Honorius tells the cities to defend themselves. But this is a province
in southern Italy, besieged by Alaric the Goth. Not Britain. And even if
he was talking to Britannia, there's no mention of the withdrawal of all
troops. Nor under Constantine III's campaign in Gaul. So there's no need
to hire foederati except for the specific purpose of recruiting the
Jutes to guard the East coast with their ships against Pictish pirates.
But then, more Jutes arrive, and then more. And soon you've got a
whole Jutish kingdom in Kent. Then the Angles and Saxons take advantage of the situation and start arriving on their own initiative to
grab some land of their own. There need have been no invitation. and
there's certainly no record of any. 8)
Cheers,
Ambrosius/Mike [/quote]
Quote:Hello, Im new here but Robert knows me as he helped me working on a project, Arthurian: Total War, a mod for Rome: Total War.
Arthurians are most welcome. :wink:
Quote:Christianity
There was clearly a lack of motivation from brythonic monks and priests to try to convert the Anglo-Saxons. This work will be done by frankish priests in the VIIth century, the "Celtic" church of Iona did however helped convert the Northumbrians. Augustine will met 2 times the "welsh" bishops, wanting them to help him in his work but both times they send him to roses, saying they don't want to do anything with the Saxons.
That's right. 8)
Quote:The Justinian Plague
For what I have read, the plague affected Britons, Gaels and Picts but much more less the Saxons, because there wasn't trade and contacts between the Britons and the Saxons.
Another good point! (Even though it is only a theory about
the plague, it would explain the lack of cultural integration, since we do
know that Mediterranean trade did only exist with the West.) 8)
Quote:My question is, if the Britons under germanic rule were in a kind of equallity with the Saxons, won't the other Britons had maintened contact with them? Because a part of them would probably still be christians, etc.
Good point. Of course, we know from the Laws of Ine in
Wessex that Britons were not only recognised as being 'different', but
were of less value in Law. So there doesn't seem to be much equality
between Britons and Saxons.
Quote:Origins of the various kingdoms really appear linked to the Foederati like you pointed out: in Kent Jutish foederati, in Bernicia and Deira Angles, in Wessex Saxons.
But the trouble is, we have no evidence for the supposed
hiring of Anglo-Saxon foederati in 5th c. Britain - except the single
specific case of the hiring of the Jutes in Kent. None. The assumption
is always made that other foederati must have come here because the
assumption is that the entire Romano-British garrison was taken to
Gaul/Rome in 410AD. Says who? There's a scribal-error in Zosimus
for Bruttium, in Italy, which is always assumed to mean 'Britannia',
where Honorius tells the cities to defend themselves. But this is a province
in southern Italy, besieged by Alaric the Goth. Not Britain. And even if
he was talking to Britannia, there's no mention of the withdrawal of all
troops. Nor under Constantine III's campaign in Gaul. So there's no need
to hire foederati except for the specific purpose of recruiting the
Jutes to guard the East coast with their ships against Pictish pirates.
But then, more Jutes arrive, and then more. And soon you've got a
whole Jutish kingdom in Kent. Then the Angles and Saxons take advantage of the situation and start arriving on their own initiative to
grab some land of their own. There need have been no invitation. and
there's certainly no record of any. 8)
Cheers,
Ambrosius/Mike [/quote]
"Feel the fire in your bones."
