Very important finding in Rome: emperors signa (?)

[Luca]

I have posted some small details on the www.romanhideout.com

Basically a wooden box with three sceptres and some lancea spikes all of them layerd with oricalcum.

I will follow ASAP with pics and other news if possible.

[Come in Nighthawk]

Link's not working.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Say, are there any images of the find itself available yet?

since i personally find a find like that on the palatine hill a bit far fetched...

they might as well be religious items......

the only proof of anything owned by an emperor to me is the wooden wine barrel from emperor GAIvS found in Holland, which bore his personal seal.........

so i am highly sceptical......... to say the least........

M.VIB.M.

[Gaius Honorius Felix]

Take the period out of the URL. Then you get to the right page.

[Matt Lukes]

Link fixed.

[Daniel S Peterson]

Marcvs,
I agree they may only be "votive/religious" items unconnected to any emperor. And since when has Orichulum been associated with emperors? Now if all those things were richly sheathed in pure gold........

Actually the other article about the huge numbers of 1st century AD Roman skeletons wearing rich, gold wire woven tunics and togas is far more interesting. This would be the greatest Roman textile find in history, so I'm very surprised it has received so little attention.
Dan

[Robert Vermaat]

Actually the other article about the huge numbers of 1st century AD Roman skeletons wearing rich, gold wire woven tunics and togas is far more interesting. This would be the greatest Roman textile find in history, so I'm very surprised it has received so little attention.
Dan

If you can tell us more, I'm not stopping you

[Caballo]

Hi,

Some very grainy pics here from the Corriere Della Sere

http://rassegnastampa.beniculturali.it/ ... 6224705951

Also an article (in Italian as well) http://www.imperobizantino.it/index.php ... 45&id=6675

Any translators out there? All I can say is "Dove se Colloseo?"

Cheers

Caballo

[Jona Lendering]

since i personally find a find like that on the palatine hill a bit far fetched...

I'm always skeptical about archaeological reports, but Clementina Panella usually knows what she's doing and I see nothing implausible in someone hiding precious objects before, say, the Visigoths or Vandals sacked Rome.

Please note that the article has been updated.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Sorry Jona, but the so called ' sacking of Rome '

was not at all that hefty.........

Okay someone may well have hidden precious objects, but to immediatelt attach it to any emperor is over the top for me. also the only thing i can make out of the grainy picture bearing the find is a is a sword. and a few discs....... but to say it is a signa......?

Say, Dan, i would be happy if you could guide us to more info on the Textile find!

best wishes,

M.VIB.M.

[Jona Lendering]

the so called ' sacking of Rome ' was not at all that hefty.........

I beg to defer. The Vandals sacked the city for no less than three weeks; the city never recovered and ever since, ruins have "graced" the eternal city.

The Visigoths did not kill many people (at least, that's what is written by Orosius, who is trying to show that this was not a disaster), but still, they were busy for several days. The obvious place to start looting was the palace. Several of the "treasuries of the Temple" from Jerusalem are known to have been taken away by the Visigoths from the palace; when the Arabs conquered Toledo in 711, they discovered the "table of Suleyman".

Note that after 410, parts of the nearby Forum Romanum had to be re-modeled. You must have seen the fifth-century statue bases in front of the Basilica Julia. Looting of this part of Rome was, in my opinion, systematic and intensive.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

But nothing compared to the looting of building material which started almost immediately after the decline of Roman rule, lasting well into the 1800's !! the main reason why we dont have an interior in the AMPHITHEATRvM FLAVIvM anymore......

the reforming of the forum romanum, as well as the redesigning of many other buildings and public places was standard practice in Roman society, and for that matter in any society which is developing itself, also after attacks or pillage. there is no proof that the reason for remodelling the forum was only because of the sacking.

Also the so called treasures of jerusalem were according to one account thrown in the river Tiber, but no one has ever found any proof of that.

furthermore, the so called table of suleyman is not proven to be a collection of artefacts coming from the Jerusalem Temple.....it might as well have consisted of a lot of gold trinkets looted from any odd place.

M.VIB.M.

[Daniel S Peterson]

I've started another thread to specifically discuss the clothed Roman skeletons, though this is a very interesting topic as well.

[Jona Lendering]

the reforming of the forum romanum, as well as the redesigning of many other buildings and public places was standard practice in Roman society, and for that matter in any society which is developing itself, also after attacks or pillage. there is no proof that the reason for remodelling the forum was only because of the sacking.

The Roman Forum was not standard. It kept its Augustan design almost unchanged (except for the Temple of Vespasian, Arch of Severus, Temple of Faustina) until Diocletian, when it was for the first time really redesigned. Second rostra, redesign Temple Caesar, honorific columns, renewal Curia Julia, rebuilding Temple Saturn, etc.
After the sack, which is archaeologically confirmed in a/o the Basilica Aemilia and the (already abandoned) House of the Vestal Virgins, the second redesign took place. If the inscription by Gabinius Vettius Probianus (urban prefect 416) in the Basilica Julia does not count as sufficient evidence, then what is proof?

Also the so called treasures of jerusalem were according to one account thrown in the river Tiber, but no one has ever found any proof of that.

What is the source for this story? I only know that Jordanes tells about the burial of Alaric, "with many treasures", in the river Busento, near Cosenza.

furthermore, the so called table of suleyman is not proven to be a collection of artefacts coming from the Jerusalem Temple...

Abdilhakam 21 is pretty explicit. Again: if this is no proof, then what do you consider to be sufficient?

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

a Solid archaeological find is what i consider proof, not inscriptions, and writings since they are almost always tainted!

next thing you might say is that we have to take Livius literally!

Now I know you are a renowned scholar, however i personally do not agree with many scholars who find total proof in writings by biassed ancient authors....

same with the death of Alexander story... or even the chard of pottery found in IvDAEA containing the name of Goliath, or even the inscription on the ossuary; James, brother of Jesus.....
I find that wishful thinking.


I got into a dispute with a professor once when I refused to call the Romans Pagan, since i personally regard their religious beliefs for what they are, religious beliefs. Nor do i hold anyone in contempt who wants to follow the teachings of a certain IvDAEAN rebel, whose teachings have been misread by so many and have destroyed more than any other philosophy in the modern world. Especially in the city of Rome.

M.VIB.M.