Alaric\'s intentions, army, sizes, recruitment,...

[S SEVERUS]

I have finished reading "Barbarians Within the Gates of Rome Study of Roman Military Policy and the Barbarians, Ca.375-425 AD". To me this book give an interesting light on the last chapters of the Western Roman Empire.
I seems to me that Alaric was aiming at a high roman command in the first place rather than styling himself king of the goths and that he did so till the end and because of the fact that Honorius (or better his entourage)kept denying this from him was an important factor for the problems the roman government faced in this period. The author also stresses the fact that Alaric army was'nt that big at that it wasn't exclusively gothic. Also the actual sizes of the field army and border troops must have been rather small in comparison with earlier and was heavily recruited from among the border peoples across the border. So we would find lots of gothic speaking soldiers at the danube frontier.
Someone agrees or disagrees with this view?


But what i also would like to find is a book that gives more information for this period for the eastern roman empire?

[P. Lilius Frugius Simius]

P. Lilio S. Severo sal.

That's the feeling I've gotten from reading classical and other authors' books on the subject, that Alaric was actually trying to position himself (and the Goths) high in the Roman, maybe as "new Romans", and it's the POV I intend to show in my novel (when I actually arrive there, at the moment I'm still writing in the march on the Danube that leads to Hadrianopolis)...

I didn't know that book, I'll take good note, and check it out...

Thanks!

uale

[Robert Vermaat]

It seems to me that Alaric was aiming at a high roman command in the first place rather than styling himself king of the goths and that he did so till the end and because of the fact that Honorius (or better his entourage)kept denying this from him was an important factor for the problems the roman government faced in this period. The author also stresses the fact that Alaric army was'nt that big at that it wasn't exclusively gothic. Also the actual sizes of the field army and border troops must have been rather small in comparison with earlier and was heavily recruited from among the border peoples across the border. So we would find lots of gothic speaking soldiers at the danube frontier.

Totally agree. This is the theory of Liebeschütz, and it still seems a partisan view, at least among popular viws of the Goths.

For what I've read so far, Alaraic led a waxing and waning army, consisting of groups of Goths (who also operated alone if it suited them), Romans and other Germanics (such as the federates who espaped from the slaughter after Stilicho was murdered. This was no Gothic nation moving around in one group, nor was Alaric their one and only king.

I think I support the above views, that Alaric did not want to conquer Rome, just assert enough pressure to force the Romans to recognise 'his' Goths (not necessarily all the Goths) as regular troops, not federates.
This would have allowed him a secure military support, although I bet Alaric would have used that to take Stilicho's place and become the Patrician behind the throne.

Nor was Alaric anti-Roman, when Stilicho was murdered he was about to go to war, with the aid of Alaric!

[P. Lilius Frugius Simius]

Robert,

we agree completely in this issue, it seems! :-) )

But you haven't provided any other books, and I'm sure you know some, please be generous... ;-) )

greetings!

[Robert Vermaat]

Not a matter of generocity, but of memory...

Liebeschütz, J.H.W.G. (1990): Barbarians and Bishops, Army, Church, and State in the Age of Arcadius and Chrysostom, (Clarendon Press, Oxford).
Liebeschütz, J.H.W.G. (1992): Alaric’s Goths: nation or army?, in: Drinkwater, J.F. and Hugh Elton eds.: Fifth-century Gaul: a Crisis of Identity?, (Cambridge), pp. 75-83.

Good book anyway:
Drinkwater, J.F. and Hugh Elton eds. (1992): Fifth-century Gaul: a Crisis of Identity?, (Cambridge).

I'll see if I can find more that I read.

[P. Lilius Frugius Simius]

Robert,

I haven't seen any of these, I'll check out the University Library, thanks!

uale

[S SEVERUS]

Good book anyway:
Drinkwater, J.F. and Hugh Elton eds. (1992): Fifth-century Gaul: a Crisis of Identity?, (Cambridge).

Indeed a good book. I also have this title.

Thx for sharing your opinion about this subject.

[Titus Amatius Paulus]

I agree with this point of view: Alaricus didn´t tries to destroy Rome and form a gothic reign, he tries to reach to the top of the power in the Roman state of commander of the army but was unsucessful and become so fustrated who sacked Rome. But it doesn´t justify the sacks and the destruction who maked before in Moesia, Tracia, Macedonia and Acaya and after in Italy.

Was his succesor Ataluft who made a germanic reign in the Roman territory (south of Galia and north of Hispania) and tried a approchement with the central power of the western empire and acted as a subordinate of the roman power, this approchement make enemies in his court who finally kills him.