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World Cup
Best goals ever? Where's Van Basten's European Championship 1988 goal against Russia?
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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Quote:Best goals ever? Where's Van Basten's European Championship 1988 goal against Russia?

Like the title says, the best goals ever.


:wink: :wink:
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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Oy! :evil:

As the title above the video says...
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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Yup, a beauty. Big Grin
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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Well????? Zidane said there weren't any racist remarks!!!!!!!!!!!!
So. Any comments? All those that were sure, fearful, hoping there had been racist remarks, don't you feel a little foolish?

Civilization started when men decided to insult another rather than beat at each other (not precise words but quite faithful to a sentence by Freud). Zidane lost it and that remains a shameful fact. He was even more false when he apologized to children instead of saying "I am completely wrong and you children should never lose control over something so impalpable as words". I've read his mother said she wants Materazzi testicles. Is that true. What do you think about that? Just words.
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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Quote:Well????? Zidane said there weren't any racist remarks!!!!!!!!!!!!
So. Any comments? All those that were sure, fearful, hoping there had been racist remarks, don't you feel a little foolish?
No. Materazzi had stated he hadn't said anything about Zidane's family, so it turns out he is probably a complete liar as well as an animal.

Quote:Civilization started when men decided to insult another rather than beat at each other (not precise words but quite faithful to a sentence by Freud).
A lot of time has passed since Freud, and his is only a theory anyway.

Quote:Zidane lost it and that remains a shameful fact. He was even more false when he apologized to children instead of saying "I am completely wrong and you children should never lose control over something so impalpable as words". I've read his mother said she wants Materazzi testicles. Is that true. What do you think about that? Just words.

Goffredo, quite frankly it doesn't matter. Nobody here has said that Zidane did the right thing, but he apologised, he specifically did to children, and all you're doing is nitpicking.

As for his mother's words, good on her imho. She may well have slapped Zidane around a bit as well.

Materazzi had ample opportunity to stop. When the ref saw Materazzi on the ground he was seeing the smoke, and Zidane was the fire. But equally so, a fire needs fuel to make the flames, and that was Materazzi. He deliberately pushed Zidane too far, and this being the real world and not some ideological fantasy world, he reaped the whirlwind. Tough luck.

Since then, the world has scrutinised Materazzi and found him to be a disgraceful footballer, far worse than Zidane in my opinion, and as Stanley Kubrick once said, "The truth of a thing is often not in the think of it, but in the feel of it." Or something like that.

Materazzi is a devious, bullying, sly, sneaky, filthy player who, instead of being allowed to get away with it as he usually does, has been exposed for what he is.

Zidane did no worse than Materazzi has ever done, but at least he was up front about it.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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YES I guess I am nitpicking! Zidane apologies to chidren is hypocritical and the press sucking up to him is frankly quite disgusting. They should have challenged his "gang" mentality that is truely not educational. I remains that Materazzi is a jerk!
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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Quote: Even fans are banned if caught saying or gesturing something racist.

Good grief! The stadiums in Philly would be empty!! (Well assuming anyone every showed up.)
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)

Moderator, RAT

Rules for RAT:
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I agree with Tarbicus.

Quote:Well????? Zidane said there weren't any racist remarks!!!!!!!!!!!!


Here my short and clumsy translation :?

Journalist: If there is an investigation, we will perhaps know.
This is words vs words.
Zinedine Zidane:It is not "perhaps". You can know, read on the leaps...
J:The british tabloids, italians, or other have already done it. It more or less crosschecks what you have said without having to spell things out, the insults about your mother and you sister.
ZZ: Yes...

So Zizou never said they weren't racist insults and he also never said there were racist.
He only said his mother and sister have been insulted with very serious words. He doesn't want to say them because it's too serious.
But if you carefully look the interview, we understand what has been said in the newspapers is very close of the truth.
And what is the most common "translation" of the insults?
"Son of a terrorist whore..."

Using the word "terrorist" because of the ZZ origins (Algerian and Kabyle) is racism.

To be honest, we still don't have the clue of these words.
I don't say it is a racist insult, i say it could be.

But there is a new video of the scene, where we see the 2 players in a front view.
So we will certainly know these "famous" insults.
Moreover, there will may be a confrontation between the 2 play res the 20 July.

Quote: Zidane lost it and that remains a shameful fact
Yes it is shameful. He has said himself his bad move was "intolerable"

Quote:He was even more false when he apologized to children instead of saying "I am completely wrong and you children should never lose control over something so impalpable as words".
Could you tell me what you think it was false? He apologized, and it sounds sincere. He will not apologized to Materazzi Big Grin

And what about Materazzi?
Was he right to insult Zidane?
Did he apologized?
Didn't he say'd he would never insult a mother because mother is sacred?

Quote:I've read his mother said she wants Materazzi testicles. Is that true. What do you think about that? Just words.
I don't think it is true. The Zidane familiy is not known for this kind of behavior, they are very secretive.
It's sounds like propaganda.
I have also read she was sick, but it doesn't seem to be true.

Quote:Zidane apologies to children is hypocritical and the press sucking up to him is frankly quite disgusting.
Why is it disgusting. Yes Zidane was wrong and had a stupid move. But he acted as man. In Kabylie, mother is sacred and honor very important.
It is really different from our cultures.

We forgive him because he defended his family honor. And because he is a great player and a great man even if he can do bad things.
A few centuries ago, there wouldn't have been a headbutt, but a duel with swords and a blade in the Materazzi chest Wink
ERWAN
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Bonjour
you agree with Tabaricus but that does not make him right. Right? Not in my business! I can imagine that I and far from being convincing, but I sure haven't heard very good or unbiased arguments yet. To me it sounds like the old sore-looser sour-grapes syndrome or just envy to me.

In mafia Italy people kill for honor. Does that make it right? A person verbally offends another's sister and it is thus right for that man, a man of honor, to go physical, and, why not, kill the offender? Isn't that what all this honor crap is about? BLA BLA BLA. Be serious and honest. By the way I wasn't saying Zidane is disgusting. What I found disgusting was the press that lost an opporunity to nail this guy and take on and dismatle this honor culture crap.

Another thing: why should you not believe the rumor that Zidane's mother said the remark about Materazzi's testicles while you keep believing that Materazzi said something racist?

I do not intend to continue this arguement so you guys can go on writing what you please. I will not read this thread. Indeed this whole issue of equating physical reactions to insults is just baloney and profoundly stupid. There is a difference. If you don't get it at your age and in your daily culture then you never will. Hope sincerely hope you don't get yourself in trouble with the law and that I am not sitting in the jury.

jeff

p.s. to lighten up bit I read that some stupid german magazine writes that they should take the cup away from Italy. As it would be absurd to give it to France (after Zidane's unacceptable reaction) then what would they have to do? Why give it to Germany of course!

Or there is someone out there that thinks they should take it away from Italy and give it to France on the basis of this Zidane-Materazzi episode? My God how blind and low can people drop! But I will never know as I am not returning to this thread.
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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Gentlemen, far be it from me to offer an expert opinion on this subject, but perhaps my utter ignorance of football and the history of these players allows me to humbly suggest that we end this debate about the incident and these two players in particular..? No, I don't want to offend anyone, but I think we would all profit from focusing on the mutual interests which bring us together here at RAT.

Just my personal suggestion, my friends.
Robert Stroud
The New Scriptorium
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Buongiorno.

It's a pity if you stop coming on this thread, this a good opportunity to share our thoughts.

I don't think someone is trying to convice another one
We are just all giving our opinions with passion on a hot subject.

I didn't said Zidane was right and i m not justifying what he did. I'm just trying to understand him and explaining why he acted this way...
ERWAN
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Quote:Gentlemen, far be it from me to offer an expert opinion on this subject, but perhaps my utter ignorance of football and the history of these players allows me to humbly suggest that we end this debate about the incident and these two players in particular..? No, I don't want to offend anyone, but I think we would all profit from focusing on the mutual interests which bring us together here at RAT.

Just my personal suggestion, my friends.

You are right.
But talking with people with very different opions is quite enriching.
ERWAN
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Quote:but I sure haven't heard very good or unbiased arguments yet. To me it sounds like the old sore-looser sour-grapes syndrome or just envy to me.

Errrmmm, I'm English. Think about it.

Who's biased here?

Quote:I will not read this thread.
Not for the first time.

Quote:A person verbally offends another's sister and it is thus right for that man, a man of honor, to go physical, and, why not, kill the offender?
Nobody threatened to kill the offender. You're exaggerating.

Zidane made no attempt to disfigure or ruin the parental capabilities of Materazzi, but I'm afraid the latter has clearly tried to do that in the past to innocent sporting opponents, and he's a psycho who should be taken out of the game.

To Robert: Sorry, but we're talking footie. :?
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
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