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Salamis: sound and vision
#1
Here is my question: is it possible to see ships when the only light is a star of the minus-fourth magnitude?

Let me explain.

During the night of 28/29 September 480, the Persians approached Salamis. Early in the morning, they entered the straits, and the rest is history. What could the Greeks know about the Persian movements? Of course, they could hear them. Thousands of oars make an immense noise. But could they see them?

Until 3 o' clock, this must have been impossible, because the only lights were (a) the burning acropolis, (b) the camp fires, and © the planet Jupiter. The first two did not betray movements; the third does not have sufficient light (magnitude -2) to enable people to see during the night.

Things must have changed when Venus rose at three o' clock; this planet was magnitude -4.3; soon, Mars rose, about as bright as Jupiter. This may have created sufficient light to see the Persian ships. Does anyone know?
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#2
But wouldn’t the Persian ships need running lights in order to stay in formation? A small fleet you might miss even so, but I suspect you could see some of the lights of such a huge fleet.
Paul Klos

\'One day when I fly with my hands -
up down the sky,
like a bird\'
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#3
I have been thinking about that too. As far as I can see, there is no reason to assume that the Persians ever assumed that they could surprise the Greeks.
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#4
Hi Jona,
If you consider that a trireme only rises out of the water by a few meters, especially when it's readied for battle and without masts and sails, they would probably be hard to see. Just long, low, dark sleek shapes on the water. Unless the foam from the oars entering the water shimmered in the light?
Where are your Greek observers supposed to stand? On Salamis or on a Greek ship?
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#5
Quote:Where are your Greek observers supposed to stand? On Salamis or on a Greek ship?
I think that the Greek stood on the Cynosema promontory and on the nearby hills. The light of Venus (at it brightest) must have been sufficient, I would argue, to see dark contours that confirmed what the Greeks heard, and was sufficient to establish that the Persians were not retreating or continuing to Corinth or something like that.
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#6
Night is never pitch black.
While posted on the border in 1991, I could see without the aid of night vision. You would be surprised to see how strong starlight in a clear September sky can be and how clear you can see even in the absence of the lights of "civilation" And that was North Greece.
I asume then that clear September sky with starlight in the Saronic Gulf could allow the Greeks to see the Persians. You can add to it and the burnning fires on Attika.
Kind regards
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#7
Also its a really narrow pass. It doesnt have that much space so that you can be totally covered in darkness. You can actually see the opposite beach relatively easy in much detail.
aka Yannis
----------------
Molon lave
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#8
I agree with you all. The Greeks on Salamis must have been able to hear the Persians and could see, although perhaps not very well, the positions of the enemy ships.
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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