My Story from the Pompeii Amphitheater

[Gaius Honorius Felix]

On my trip to Italy a few weeks ago we visited pompeii. I loved the city but thats not why Im writing this.
We arrived in the amphitheter early in the morning so our small group was the only ones there. My friends and I were messing around and we had a "friendly" scuffle. No one was hurt seriously but there was a little blood involved. Yes, thats right blood; I drew the first blood in that amphitheater. The first blood its seen in a few centuries.
Just an interesting little story I wanted to share with the community. My friend wasnt hurt bad, only a small nosebleed; and we didnt get in trouble. And a small disclaimer: I am not a mean or bad person, the injury wasnt serious at all; this was all just our group messing around.

[Jona Lendering]

[caiusbeerquitius]

I have also a nice Pompeji-story:

When I was working in Popmpeji in 1996, I was walking from the forum to the cafeteria, when I heard an elderly american lady say to her husband, while she was gesturing over the forum:
"Those horrible Germans, they bombed EVERYTHING!"
Her husband agreed.
I thought this was very funny, and bursted out in a laugh. The lady asked me, what would be so funny about what she said. And I told her that
a) the Vesuvio had destroyed Pompeji at a time where the Germans had had no airplanes yet
and
b) the Americans had bombed the ruined city in the second world war.
I think I left her a bit puzzled....

[Primvs Pavlvs]

:wink: Dont you know Caius you Germans get the blame for everything? I always like to ask people like this about Dresden.

[Jona Lendering]

The second Pompeii story reminds me of an incident on 29 April, when the Dutch celebrated the monarchy. As our dynasty is called "Orange", many people dress in orange.

I was walking through Amsterdam when I saw a group of people dressed in orange and making music. But they were a bit different from the normal monarchists, because they sang "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna..."

"What are those people?" a boy asked, with a dialect that made it possible to identify him as a non-Amsterdammer. The father immediately showed that he knew everything: "Those people are the Witnesses of Jehovah."

[Praefectusclassis]

with a dialect that made it possible to identify him as a non-Amsterdammer

Interesting observation... :wink:

[Jona Lendering]

Limburgers are capable of pronouncing the /ch/...

[hilmar]

Hi, I'm Hilmar's wife, and we also had a nice story at Pompei amphitheatre 2 years ago.
We are both members of the Musica Romana music group, and I took out my pair of aulos in the amphitheatre and played Mesomedes of Crete's Nemesis hymn.
A few weeks later I worked for a school project at our bandleader's old school, and when we showed our instruments and said I was one of a handful of people worldwide playing auloi, one of the pupils told me: " Oh, when I was at Pompei in the Easter holidays, there was also someone playing auloi there" .... guess who that had been D

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

"Those horrible Germans, they bombed EVERYTHING!"
Her husband agreed.

if i recall coreectly, there is also such a story about the collosseum in Rome of which some American soldiers in WW2 thought was the remains of a bombed building...

[Primvs Pavlvs]

"Those horrible Germans, they bombed EVERYTHING!"
Her husband agreed.

if i recall coreectly, there is also such a story about the collosseum in Rome of which some American soldiers in WW2 thought was the remains of a bombed building...

Many American soldiers were drafted from some of the most rural places in the US in the 1940s. I would imagine some of these boys had never even imagined visiting Europe, much less being able to identify ancient Roman ruins.

There are 1000s of these poor, ignorant boys lying in graves in Europe who died while freeing Europe.

[Eleatic Guest]

"Those horrible Germans, they bombed EVERYTHING!"

I have heard of two war time incidences where - if my information is correct - the Nazis actually tried to save Italian monuments from destruction.

At the retreat from Florence, reportedly Hitler himself gave the order to blow up all bridges crossing the Arno, but to spare the Ponte Vecchio, Europe's oldest segemental arch bridge. The German troops then blew up nearby buildings instead to block the bridge by building debris.

Before, in Monte Cassino, birthplace of the Benedictine Order, the German commander actually contacted the Allied Forces and offered to leave the monastery unmanned by his troops, in order to spare it from fighting and destruction. If true, this was no small feat, because MC, situated on a steep hilltop, occupied an immensely important strategical point. Despite this, the Allies bombed the then still unoccupied place, and only afterwards the German troops moved in the rubbled place and the real battle of Monte Cassino began.

Perhgaps somebody can verify these stories.

[tlclark]

General Clark (no relation) said that bombing Italy was like bombing a museum. The Americans made a very consicentious effort to avoid bombing cultural treasures, but hey, war is war.

In the end I would love to know what happened at Monte Cassino. It was nearly intact from the 11th C. onward, so it was a real loss. The British made several attempts to ascertain whether or not they were being fired on from Monte Cassino but decided to call in allied planes.

Several art historians have determined that the bombing was futile and wrong as no German forces were there, but personal accounts of the soldiers on the ground are insistent the sniper fire was coming from Monte Cassino.

At best, it's a fog of war scenario, or at worst it was being used by the Germans and a justifiable target.

Travis

[Virilis]

I almost cried in frustration when I saw/heard what damage has been done to the historical remains recently in Baghdad (in museums etc.)

[Goffredo]

Regards the germans saving what could be saved, YES it is true. The Cassino Benedictine Abbey was the mother abbey of benedictines in all europe. It was the hub to all those in catholic austria and bavaria and I guess this explains the german will to really do some "good". In any case the Vatican City was the diplomatic channel thru which the germans and allies communicated. The germans tried to convince the allies the abbey was not being used militarily, not even as an observation post, while the allies let the germans know that the bombing, at one point, had become inevitable. So the germans did the most difficult thing of removing all movable objects (ancient books, paintings, religious objects) and took the truck loads, by night to avoid ally airplanes, to safety (to the vatican! not to Goering's private collection).

It was the New Zelander commander that determined to have the abbey bombed and he had his way because the allies needed the new zelanders which had the option of pulling out of the war effort. But we must not underestimate the terrible fact that the Abbey was percieved by everyone on the battle fields below and around as an ominous threat. And the germans were actually quite close to it (few hundred meters if I recollect). The germans did make their defense line go thru the monte cassino hill and were evidently quite oblivious to the fact that this would have exposed the abbey to danger of severe if not total destruction.
It is another fact that Goebels propaganda of the cassino bombing was a masterpiece. It succeeded so well in depicting the allies as barbarians as to this day many people think the bombing of tha abbey as an arbitrary decision and are completely ignorant of how terrible the cassino battle was. Another Goebels master piece was Dresden, but that is another terrible story (see recent book by Taylor).

In any case here is an excellent and recent book:
"Monte Cassino: the story of the hardest fought battle of world war two"
by Matthew Parker, 2003
He makes no exaggeration regarding it the hardest fought of WW2. There are some terrible stories. I was shocked. Indeed I teach at the Univerity of Cassino and for months walking those areas (my faculty is at the foot of Monte Cassino) my thoughts went to those that fought and died there in conditions that make one think of the terrible battles of WW1 or of Stalingrad. He make comparisions that are worth more than a passing thought.

[Eleatic Guest]

I almost cried in frustration when I saw/heard what damage has been done to the historical remains recently in Baghdad (in museums etc.)

Haven't yet time to read the article, so I do not know what exact stance the author takes, but he tried an evaluation of the damage done:

The Casualties of War: The Truth about the Iraq Museum