08-07-2006, 03:27 AM
OK, I'll retract part of what I said. But I still believe the Empire did hinder technological progress due to the Romans' general attitude towards innovations. Specifically, they were just very traditionalist and conservative in their set ways - "this is how we do it and have always done it" kind of mentality. I'm not pinning this belief to any particular Roman, but that was the general attitude, IMO. Of course, this isn't to say there weren't any innovations just not rapid advancement. The Greeks were even worse - they had a MUCH more individualistic attitude that scorned any openness toward change where technology was concerned - again, that doesn't mean they didn't innovate b/c they most certainly did, we're just talking about pace here.
Just my thoughts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Tim,
I usually find it a treat to read your posts when you have something to say about the middle ages, but I think I have to partially disagree with what you said here...
I don't think you can make such a sweeping statement about the whole of Western Europe. For 300 years Visigothic Spain was still a prosperous region after Roman authority collapsed in the peninsula. The Visigoths were probably the most "Romanized" of all the barbarian tribes who conquered the West - certainly more so than the Vandals. True, there were wars that took place including civil wars among the Visigoths themselves, but this didn't destroy the economy. Many if not most of them spoke Latin, all wore the same Roman clothing, used the same Roman weapons and were all Christians. And classical education survived the disappearance of the Western Empire as well. So, when the Berbers conquered Spain in 711 AD finding it still fully irrigated I think they would've said on the whole, Spain was quite a "well kept shop" - as Hitler said referring to France after it was conquered by Germany. Militarily - weak, economically - prosperous, culturally - still very Roman.
BTW, I'm reading a fascinating book on Visigothic Spain at the moment by Roger Collins.
Theo
Just my thoughts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Tim,
I usually find it a treat to read your posts when you have something to say about the middle ages, but I think I have to partially disagree with what you said here...
Quote:Thankfully the tide is turning against this nonsense and Bryan Ward-Perkins' The Fall of Rome and the End of Civilisation makes a pretty rock solid case that the collapse was chaotic, bloody and extensive, not some multi-cultural hippy group-hug.
I don't think you can make such a sweeping statement about the whole of Western Europe. For 300 years Visigothic Spain was still a prosperous region after Roman authority collapsed in the peninsula. The Visigoths were probably the most "Romanized" of all the barbarian tribes who conquered the West - certainly more so than the Vandals. True, there were wars that took place including civil wars among the Visigoths themselves, but this didn't destroy the economy. Many if not most of them spoke Latin, all wore the same Roman clothing, used the same Roman weapons and were all Christians. And classical education survived the disappearance of the Western Empire as well. So, when the Berbers conquered Spain in 711 AD finding it still fully irrigated I think they would've said on the whole, Spain was quite a "well kept shop" - as Hitler said referring to France after it was conquered by Germany. Militarily - weak, economically - prosperous, culturally - still very Roman.
BTW, I'm reading a fascinating book on Visigothic Spain at the moment by Roger Collins.
Theo
Jaime
