Food supplies during Persian War

[Aryaman2]

I think that kliri is the word usually rendered in English as Kleros, a land grant for a military service
They are evidence for what it is called "theoretical maximum strength", the total manpower theoretically at the disposal of an army. There are other 2 steps below that one, the "mobilized strength" and the "present strength", the former being the manpower actually mobilized, the later being the force in presence at a given time in a given place (a battle, for instance). We have to be careful to compare the same kind of figures. I will give some examples
In 1322, the English parliament, at the request of Edward II decreted a general levy of the Kingdom, troops were to be recruited in all counties, each one allotted a quota, so that the total number ammounted to 39.000 men, that was the theoretical maximum strength of the Kingdom of England. However only 4.349 men turned out, the mobilized force, you see that could be a great difference in those numbers. In medieval times a similar system of granted lands for military service was in force in most of Western Europe, and the mobilized force was always very much inferior to the theoretical maximum strength.
In Ancient times we have very rarely, if ever, anything but theoretical maximum strength, an exception could be the report by Thucydides on the battle of Delium, IIRC he says something like the whole body of Athenian citizens in arms moved to the field, and they ammounted to 7.000 hoplites, contrast that with the theoretical maximum strength of the Athenians as given by Thucydides in the speech by Pericles at the start of the war. Another example could be the tabula laciniana mentioned by Polybius.
AFAIK present strength is only given by some Egyptian papyrii on Late Roman units.
"In modern states citizens can vote and have social securrity without military service. In ancient Greece you could vote only if you could fight"
Then I will give the example of Napoleonic France, every year a new batch of around 420.000 recruits were elligible for military service, the maximum theoretical strength, but many were discarded on social, political, physical grounds, you name it, so that only about 80.000 were drafted each year, the mobilized strength, finally after desertion and sickness, less than 60.000 really made to the army.

[hoplite14gr]

Romans perhpas were better politicians than soldiers.
They got themselves involved in the civil wars. History teaches us that oppossing parties in a civil strife fight very bitterly.
Aetolians fought savagly in Kynos Kefale and Pydna. The same was true for Ceasar's Gallic, Spanish,Germanic and Pontic Allies.
You are right that unless in "dire straights" (e.g siege)Greek city force never went Panastratia but....
Dareios savage campaign in the Thracic coast and destruction of surrendered Eretria made the Greeks desparate in beliving that yielding was no slavation. Fighting desperate opponents is not a good idea. They might go Panstratia!
There are differences between Medieval and Classical armies.
The Greek middle class farmer had motive to fight for his property either to defend it or to grab more. There was short campaign season and untill the Pellopenessian War your neighbor was your enemy. You had to defend your fields. If you invested in weapons victory meant gains for you. Greek armies would muster most of their strength.
defeat meant you could marry another hoplite's widow and keep or raise your status. The medieval serf had no such options therefor no reason to fight.
Kind regards

[Aryaman2]

Greek armies would muster most of their strength.
defeat meant you could marry another hoplite's widow and keep or raise your status. The medieval serf had no such options therefor no reason to fight.
Kind regards

That is debatable, but in any case you see my point, maximum theoretical strength is not the same as mobilized strength, A case from ancient times, Brunt in the classic "Italian manpower" estimated the total elligible population of roman citizens and latin allies at 361.000 (based on the census figures given by Polybius for the year 225), and the mobilized force at the peak war effort of the Second Punic War as 80.000. Even if people is willing to fight there are material and logistic constrictions. My estimation, is that anything over 70% of total mobilized is unrealistic, and that 25%-70% should be considered exceptional and only available for defensive, mainly static, missions.
In the term "Medieval" a lot of different kind of military systems are included. In the case I showed, England 1322, no serfs were involved though. OTOH the feudal system of land tenures by knights in exchange for military service is very similar to the Kleroi, and despite all the plausible motives you exposed for kleruchoi being willing to fight, that could equally being adequate for medieval knights, that system yielded very low mobilization percentages.

[conon394]

Aryaman2

In Ancient times we have very rarely, if ever, anything but theoretical maximum strength, an exception could be the report by Thucydides on the battle of Delium, IIRC he says something like the whole body of Athenian citizens in arms moved to the field, and they ammounted to 7.000 hoplites

If I understand your point, you are arguing that the figure from Pericles’ speech earlier in the war (2.13.7), that the regular Hoplite force at Athens was 13000, is theoretical number while the 7000 figure is more accurate?

Had Delium occurred in the first year of the war, you would have a good point, but you have overlooked a fair amount of evidence that the statement of Pericles was with respect to actual fighting men.

The most significant point is that at the beginning of the war Athens did actually deploy 16,000 hoplites. When describing the Pericles led invasion of Megara at the start of the war, Thycudides (2.31.1-3) notes that Athens had 3000 soldiers at Potidaea and invaded Megara with 10,000 Athenians and 3000 metric Hoplites.

Why only 7000 or so at Delium? Well by that time Athens suffered over 1000 hoplite casualties, and the Plague which wiped out something like twenty to thirty percent of the population of Attica. The time between the Plague and Delium (about a decade) is not really sufficient to allow replacement by increased family size. Part of the army was deployed with Demosthenes (and if you believe Diodorus it was a significant portion), in addition some front line hoplites were very likely tied down at Nisaea and Pylos at least.


edit: oops please excuse poor quality contral due to posting while at work ... that should be Pericles claimed 13000 hoplites and delivered when he invaded Megara.