Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Definition of defeat, victory, etc.
#1
The following question occurred to me some time ago when I was occupied with Alexander's siege of Halicarnassus, but is more general in nature: how do we define victory?

In Halicarnassus, Alexander gained some ground, but his losses were greater than that of his opponents, he lost the tactical initiative, and the Persian kept control of the port that Alexander had wanted to seize. He could boast victory because he had occupied the living quarters, but it was, by any meaningful definition, a defeat.

An obvious parallel is the allied campaign on Sicily. The result was that the Germans occupied all of Italy and were able to remove everything of military importance from the island. The allied were forced to employ many forces in the south of Europe, which could (a bit later) better have been employed in Normandy. At least one book on Sicily is subtitled Whose victory?

Other example: Actium. (Jasper will recognize an earlier discussion.) Marc Antony's tactical aim was to break away from a hopeless position; he was successful, and it was only during the diplomatic negotiations during the autumn of 31 that his former allies switched sides. One might say that Actium was a tactical victory for Antony, although at operational level, he suffered a decisive defeat.

Mr. Teitler's Dutch handbook on military strategy, which is otherwise a splendid book, is no great help. Anyone over here?
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
Reply
#2
I think this is best summed up in the words attributed variously to Admiral Togo or Baron Witte:

"At the beginning of an engagement, both sides enter into it with a strategic goal in mind. The side that reaches that goal wins."

Yes, that means sometimes there can be two winners. But more often, none.
Der Kessel ist voll Bärks!

Volker Bach
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Victory and defeat Roman soldiers SAJID 7 672 09-17-2021, 02:46 PM
Last Post: SAJID
  Definition of the Iron Age. Gaius Julius Caesar 38 6,220 01-10-2011, 02:11 PM
Last Post: Ron Andrea
  High definition picture of the Moorlands patera Caballo 0 1,078 12-22-2007, 06:15 PM
Last Post: Caballo

Forum Jump: