Posts: 1,311
Threads: 193
Joined: Apr 2006
Reputation:
4
Hello,
- I have been now surfing for an hour looking for Osprey publications on Greek, Roman, Byzantine and Medieval European siege warfare and I am finding this separation between 'New Vanguard', 'Elite' and whatsoever confusing and absolutely not helpful.
Whats for example the difference between ' Siege Warfare in the Roman World' and 'Greek and Roman Siege Machinery' or 'Greek and Roman Siege Artillery'???
I have read a few critical reviews on RAT and, well, I am willing to spend a few bucks, but I also want some quality for that. So could you recommend me some titles, please?
My provisional list:
Ancient Siege Warfare
[amazon]Greek and Roman Siege Machinery[/amazon]
[amazon]Greek and Roman Siege Artillery[/amazon]
[amazon]Siege Warfare in the Roman World[/amazon]
[amazon]Medieval Siege Weapons 1: Western Europe[/amazon]
[amazon]Medieval Siege Weapons 2: Byzantim, the Islamic World and India[/amazon]
[amazon]Siege Weapons of the Far East 1[/amazon]
[amazon]Siege Weapons of the Far East 2[/amazon]
- Apart from the Osprey publications, is there a definite book on Roman and Greek siege weapons apart from Marsden? I would also be thankful for free online articles.
Regards
Eleatic Guest
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
Posts: 466
Threads: 35
Joined: Feb 2006
Reputation:
0
Ave!
Siege Warfare in the Roman World is about development of siege techniques and major sieges e.g. Masada, Dura Europos, Alesia etc., very brief info on siegecraft.
Ancient Siege Warfare is very similiar to the book above, but describes earlier times.
Greek and Roman Siege Machinery describes siege machines (rams, towers, tortoises etc.) and their use.
Greek and Roman Siege Artillery describes in detail development and use of artillery weapons e.g. ballistas, arrow firing catapults, stone projecting catapult (onager) etc.
The basic difference between Elite and New Vanguard series is in the number of pages. New Vanguard series are about machines and arms.
I suggest to get all four books (ancient section) as they supplement one another and gives you very good info on the subject.
I'm very satisfied with all of them, they are worth of money.
Martin
Posts: 1,311
Threads: 193
Joined: Apr 2006
Reputation:
4
Ave.
I 've ordered now Greek and Roman Siege Artillery and Siege Warfare in the Roman World, mainly because they were more available.
But my info about Osprey publications dates back to 2004. I know they have a HP, but the search function is really a pain with their artificial separation into different series.
Have they published in the meantime any newer publications on ancient warfare?
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
Posts: 29
Threads: 4
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation:
0
I believe you can search on the Osprey site by period as well as by series...but if it works like their printed list some Late Roman stuff turns up in the Medieval section......
Steve
Posts: 3,616
Threads: 130
Joined: Apr 2004
Reputation:
52
Quote:Apart from the Osprey publications, is there a definite book on Roman and Greek siege weapons apart from Marsden?
The short answer is: not really.
And Marsden wasn't so much concerned with siege machinery as with artillery. Of course, because he included the text of Biton, he was drawn into discussion of Alexander's siege towers (for example) and the machine known as the sambuca.
Marsden (and now Alan Wilkins) are excellent sources for artillery, but there is very little available on siege machinery.
I recently came across a book called [amazon]Ancient and Medieval Siege Weapons[/amazon], by Konstantin Nossov (Lyons Press: Guilford, Conn., 2005). But the author has based much of the text on my own Osprey books and those of David Nicolle (for the medieval stuff).
(Having said that, Dr. Nossov has a very nice reconstruction of the Roman undermining work at Ambracia (189 BC) in plate 24.)
Posts: 2,237
Threads: 275
Joined: Feb 2001
Reputation:
33
Quote:Apart from the Osprey publications, is there a definite book on Roman and Greek siege weapons apart from Marsden?
This might go some way to helping (although it is a Tempus volume). I haven't seen it yet but it is on Oxbow's website:
http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/46194
Mike Bishop
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles
Blogging, tweeting, and mapping Hadrian\'s Wall... because it\'s there
Posts: 3,616
Threads: 130
Joined: Apr 2004
Reputation:
52
Hmmm ... this one was first announced in May 2004. Are you sure it actually exists?!
Posts: 122
Threads: 7
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation:
6
Quote:Hmmm ... this one was first announced in May 2004. Are you sure it actually exists?!
Publication Date: 1 Apr 2006
[url:k0667pk2]http://www.tempus-publishing.com/bookdetails.php?isbn=0752428977[/url]
Posts: 122
Threads: 7
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation:
6
Quote:I recently came across a book called Ancient and Medieval Siege Weapons, by Konstantin Nossov (Lyons Press: Guilford, Conn., 2005).
I would not recommend the book of K.S. Nosov as a serious reading. He is very uncritical to his sources. The reliable information lumps together with the complete nonsense. Besides Russian version of his book abounds with the large fragments from the predecessors, for example, Paul B. Kern. 'Ancient Siege Warfare', London, 1999.
I would strongly recommend Otto Lendle's papers (in German): 'Schildkroeten: Antike Kriegsmaschinen in Poliorketischen Texten', Wiesbaden, 1975; 'Texte und Untersuchungen zum Technischen Bereich der Antiken Poliorketik', Wiesbaden, 1983.
By the way Nosov has no academic degree in the historical science.
Posts: 118
Threads: 1
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation:
0
Quote: The short answer is: not really.
“[amazon]Hellenistic Fortifications from the Aegean to the Euphrates[/amazon]â€
Paul Klos
\'One day when I fly with my hands -
up down the sky,
like a bird\'
Posts: 3,616
Threads: 130
Joined: Apr 2004
Reputation:
52
Quote:Apart from the Osprey publications, is there a definite book on Roman and Greek siege weapons apart from Marsden?
McNicoll's book is definitely a good read, but it ain't a history of siege warfare or a book about Greek and Roman siege weapons.
McNicoll did his research in the late 1960s under Eric Marsden. The book is basically his PhD thesis (submitted 1971) with additional notes and a conclusion supplied by Nick Milner (of Vegetius fame) in 1992. There are certainly some interesting insights and ideas, and I would definitely recommend the book to anyone interested in Hellenistic fortifications; but the siege-related material is firmly based on Marsden.
(Is it still in print?)
Quote:There is also a new commentary and translation of Athenaeus Mechanicus available.
Reviewed at the Bryn Mawr Classical Review and Scholia web sites.
Posts: 118
Threads: 1
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation:
0
Quote: McNicoll's book is definitely a good read, but it ain't a history of siege warfare or a book about Greek and Roman siege weapons.
McNicoll did his research in the late 1960s under Eric Marsden. The book is basically his PhD thesis (submitted 1971) with additional notes and a conclusion supplied by Nick Milner (of Vegetius fame) in 1992. There are certainly some interesting insights and ideas, and I would definitely recommend the book to anyone interested in Hellenistic fortifications; but the siege-related material is firmly based on Marsden.
It was late, I did not mean to suggest it was directly a work of siege craft, but lacking a comprehensive treatment I would include it in a list of secondary works of interest.
I think I personally would characterize it as a supplement to Marsden rather than just clearly based on him. My memory may be hazy but Marsden was hardly interested in fortifications (outside of his Biton venture). I think McNicoll adds fairly relevant information by providing a study of fortifications.
Quote:(Is it still in print?)
I think there is a fairly recent edition available (at least Amazon UK indicates you can still but it). It not cheap however, but not as bad as some university press type stuff….
Just out of curiosity have you seen the new Athenaeus Mechanicus commentary?
Paul Klos
\'One day when I fly with my hands -
up down the sky,
like a bird\'
Posts: 3,616
Threads: 130
Joined: Apr 2004
Reputation:
52
Quote:Marsden was hardly interested in fortifications (outside of his Biton venture). I think McNicoll adds fairly relevant information by providing a study of fortifications.
Not strictly true. Marsden has a whole chapter on fortifications, which is (presumably) why he was interested in supervising McNicoll's research. But, as far as siege machinery is concerned, you won't find anything in the book. And when McNicoll mentions artillery, he simply accepts Marsden's views (as does Milner in his additional material).
Still an interesting book, though. Thanks for bringing it up.
Quote:Just out of curiosity have you seen the new Athenaeus Mechanicus commentary?
Yup. I like it. (See Bryn Mawr review -- link above.)
Posts: 118
Threads: 1
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation:
0
Quote:Not strictly true. Marsden has a whole chapter on fortifications
I don't have Marsden's book just notes, they and my memory seem to have failed me. Thanks. Just out of curiosity what is you view on Marsden’s treatment of Biton, He seems to have provoked some harsh responses from some quarters.
Quote:Yup. I like it. (See Bryn Mawr review -- link above.)
Hmm (smacks head), you know I read the review when it first came out I just failed to remember who wrote it. Now I certainly feel like a low watt bulb.
Paul Klos
\'One day when I fly with my hands -
up down the sky,
like a bird\'
Posts: 3,616
Threads: 130
Joined: Apr 2004
Reputation:
52
Don't feel bad, Paul. We all have off days.
Quote:Just out of curiosity what is you view on Marsden’s treatment of Biton?
Not sure what you mean. Dating of Biton? Translation of Biton? Which particular area of Marsden's treatment?
The Danish scholar Aage Drachmann, whose opinion appears to have been feared rather than respected (!), certainly believed that Biton was a complete fraud, and that there was no point in trying to interpret his descriptions.
But Schramm (in collaboration with the philologist Rehm) and Marsden showed that you can make some sense out of Biton. It's a question of balancing what Biton writes with practical probability. Take the sambuca, for example: the late Otto Lendle made some very sensible corrections to Schramm and Marsden, which I have (gratefully) followed in my little Greek and Roman Siege Machinery book, and I believe that my reconstruction is probably close to what Biton envisaged.
|
