Greek Winter Campaigning

[Eleatic Guest]

Hello,

I read the first Greek ever to undertake a winter campaign was the Spartan general Brasidias with his capture of Olynth and Amphipolis 424-423 BC.

Did the Greeks often wage war in the winter and did they do it deliberately or only when really forced to?

Are there occasions when Greek armies deliberately attacked in the winter time as an element of surprise (like much later the Mongols with their winter attack on Kiev in 1240) ?

And, considering the potential advantages of winter surprise attacks, what logistical and other difficulties prevented Greek armies from campaigning regularly in the winter?

And, finally, could we make a comprehensive list of significant Greek campaigns?

Note that I have also opened a thread about Roman Winter campaigning here.

Eleatic Guest

[Jona Lendering]

Are there occasions when Greek armies deliberately attacked in the winter time as an element of surprise (like much later the Mongols with their winter attack on Kiev in 1240) ?

Brasidas' capture of Amphipolis is a good example indeed; Antigonus' campaign against Eumenes is another example.

[hoplite14gr]

It was unsusal because the mountain passes separating the valeys are even in our modern times too treacherous and dangerous to negotiate in winter.
Answers as to the troops winter gear you will find in the threads Barefoot in snow and Greek footware.
Hope I helped.
Kind regards

[Jona Lendering]

Yes Stephanos, that's true. Brasidas and Antigonus/Eumenes are the exceptions that prove the rule because they did not have to cross mountain passes. Even Alexander, who as a Macedonian was used to snow, ran into trouble when he tried to cross the Zagros in the winter ([url:37ix4de4]http://www.livius.org/a/iran/persian_gates/yasuj.html[/url]).

[hoplite14gr]

Agree with you Jona.
To add to it allow me an anachronism.
In WW2 both Greek and Italian armies suffered heavily from frostbite and even with modern equiment the operationd "froze" both literally and metaphoricaly.
So in my opinion all ancient winter oprerations must be considered the exception not the norm.
Kind regards

[Jona Lendering]

In WW2 both Greek and Italian armies suffered heavily from frostbite and even with modern equiment the operationd "froze" both literally and metaphoricaly.

I've heard about this when I was working at the Halos excavations, not far from modern Almyros. In a village called Sourpi, the Vlachs told stories about the Greek partisans. The story I liked best was that one of their leaders, called Ares, was believed to be one of the four cavalrymen of the Revalation. It was the first time that I heard stories from a modern oral tradition and it impressed me very much.

[Aryaman2]

Hello,

I read the first Greek ever to undertake a winter campaign was the Spartan general Brasidias with his capture of Olynth and Amphipolis 424-423 BC.

Did the Greeks often wage war in the winter and did they do it deliberately or only when really forced to?

Are there occasions when Greek armies deliberately attacked in the winter time as an element of surprise (like much later the Mongols with their winter attack on Kiev in 1240) ?

And, considering the potential advantages of winter surprise attacks, what logistical and other difficulties prevented Greek armies from campaigning regularly in the winter?

And, finally, could we make a comprehensive list of significant Greek campaigns?

Note that I have also opened a thread about Roman Winter campaigning here.

Eleatic Guest

On logistical grounds, the main problem was to feed the animals in the army, the war horses and the pack animals in the Macedonian army would be several thousands at any time, however some winter operations are mistaken as winter campaigns. Campaign could easily be prosecuted until mid Decemeber if fodder had been stored at hand and animals well cared, however once settled in winter quarters, armies usually didn´t leave until May/June, so that animals had a grazing time to recover from winter. However small parties could be sent at an earlier time to take advantage of the main enemy army still in winter quarters and conduct some raids.

[hoplite14gr]

Jona I was refering to the OCT 1940 - MAY 1941 campaign.
Agree with Aryaman.
I add also that a Spartan army passing through mountainous Arkadia to attack Heleians for example would need the cooperation of the local vilagers to find food and not to get lost in the mountain passes.
Heleians also could stay behind their walls and leave the Spartans starved in countryside. Quite a risky operation befor the invention of modern food preservation methods.
Kind regards

[Felix]

A comprehensive list of Greek campaigns is impractical. There were hundreds of city states, and peace was regarded as an unusual state of affairs. I daresay someone, somewhere, was at war for every single year of the archaic and classical periods.

[hoplite14gr]

Well Felix the questionswas about the season at which they were "solving their differences".
kind regards

[Felix]

I guess it was! Sorry about that - in which case the answer is that there were very few important winter campaigns.