06-15-2006, 01:06 PM
in 1990 on a business trip i noticed this feature
http://maps.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en& ... 068836&t=k
http://216.109.132.28/test.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/test1.jpg
here on a 1900 hungarian map
http://216.109.132.28/mappa.jpg
its identified as romer schanze on this map but that is certainly not decisive as it was common practise to identify large features as roman.
http://www.dvhh.org/mercydorf/info/imag ... sadany.jpg
its as big as Rome or Constantinople in 300AD [why 300AD? more later]
http://216.109.132.28/over.jpg
covering approximately 5000 acres.
the walls/ditches are massive, 300ft in cross section in some areas
http://216.109.132.28/t4.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/col1.jpg
and seem to show vestiges of a pallisade[?] in a few areas
http://216.109.132.28/t61a.jpg
it shares layout similarities with tongwan [outer city, inner city, palace city and inner sanctum]
http://www.china.org.cn/english/2004/Apr/92997.htm
the main walls cross over a known roman vallum
http://216.109.132.28/dacia100.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/dacia1.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/wall1.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/wall2.jpg
and it sure looks like the baths which should be there are either indicated on this map or here
http://216.109.132.28/bath.jpg or
http://216.109.132.28/bath1.jpg
seems to be a necropolis
http://maps.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en& ... 47593&om=1
and note the roman fort? hugging the vallum
http://maps.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en& ... 9,0.023797
its roots?
"The first town where Budapest is now located was built by the Celts and contained about 30 hectares along the slopes of Gellért Hill. The Romans occupied the town at the beginning of the Christian era. Its inhabitants moved to the Danube plains, to a city which kept the Celtic name (Ak ink), Aquincum, in the first century. "
http://216.109.132.28/lakes.jpg
also note name of the village Zsadany or Saden and the hun tribe Sadagariem mentioned here
http://tatar.yuldash.com/eng_187.html
looking for research references?
nothing at cultural memory romania timis county______________________________________
http://www.cimec.ro/Monumente/ListaMonu ... MonIst.htm
and not cultural memory hungary====================
http://mars.elte.hu/varak/terkep+lista2.php
then finally a "compilation" of findings 1979-1993 [poor translation incl]
============================================
http://216.109.132.28/cornesti.html
note that the offical report is maybe an avar ring but they understate the size by about 1000hectares
for fun here's Attilas palace
http://216.109.132.28/attila_1.jpg
with the back door
http://216.109.132.28/gate.jpg
easy reading
from priscus==========================
http://www29.homepage.villanova.edu/chr ... mbassy.htm
P.fr .9 Having crossed rivers mighty indeed—namely the Tisia, Tibisia, and Dricca—we came to the place where long ago Vidigoia, the bravest of the Goths, perished by the treachery of the Sarmatians. Not far from there we reached the village where king Attila was staying, a village, I say, like a very large city, in which we found wooden walls made with smooth planks, their jointure imitating solidity to such an extent that the union of the boards could scarcely be seen by close scrutiny. You might see there dining rooms extended to a liberal circumference and porticoes laid out in all splendor. The area of the courtyard was bounded by a huge circuit wall so that its very size might show it to be the royal palace. This was the house of Attila, the king who held the whole barbarian world, and he preferred this dwelling to the cities captured by him.
from DEATH OF BUDA A Hun Legend
===============================================
http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/human ... epics1.htm
As from the distance one approaches a hive of bees,
he sees a few insects flitting here and there - a
thickening swarm, a darting dance, and then a buzz
and zoom.
The hive booms; in and out the door a thousand
shining bees are crawling back on back. So teem
the swarms of busy men as Attila's town looms up
ahead.
Buda's camp, I think, is nothing compared to these
crowds that come and go and these palaces of Attila
that stretch for miles into the fields, towering
into the heavens.
This is a great range where unbroken stallions run;
a vast field betwixt where warriors train; palace on
corral and palace on corral - it would be hard, indeed,
indeed, to count them all.
At the camp's outer edge stood the servants' tents
with poles of plain fir notched. Farther in, the
tents were finer, the joints fitted smoothly with
a plane.
The palaces of the chieftains are clustered here and
there - so many proud, so many royal homes. Town
within town passes into fields, with green stretches
of distance between.
Women dwell in their secluded towns and rule over
their courts. Krimhilda passes swiftly, if she desires,
over a hanging corridor to her lord Attila's tent.
All this is work of marvellous craft. The awl argues
dead trees into blossoms and new leaves, unlike before,
painted in oil and unfamiliar colors.
The leaves are blood-red, the blossoms gold; branches
twist into hissing dragons where green birds perch
silently, birdlike bells tinkling in their stead.
In the center on a high hill is Attila's tent, the
topmost point shaded by the ancient Turul, tremendous
wings spreading for a flight, and wrought of solid
gold by its maker.
The columns flow to the ceiling, coiling like tendrils
now this way now that, the wood plated with gleaming
gold, and velvet tapestries swelling between.
from gibbon [note the bit where he mentions deceit on huns part leading to confusion over the location]
========================================
http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume1/chap34.htm
he was admitted to the royal presence; but, instead of obtaining a decisive answer, he was compelled to undertake a remote journey towards the North, that Attila might enjoy the proud satisfaction of receiving in the same camp the ambassadors of the Eastern and Western empires. His journey was regulated by the guides, who obliged him to halt, to hasten his march, or to deviate from the common road, as it best suited the convenience of the king. The Romans who traversed the plains of Hungary suppose that they passed several navigable rivers, either in canoes or portable boats; but there is reason to suspect that the winding stream of the Theiss, or Tibiscus, might present itself in different places under different names.
and from the DJAGFAR TARIHI
==========================================
http://216.109.132.28/DJAGFAR.html
Farang and Rum defeated by Atille
Paid to him huge tributes, it was told.
They built for him [cities] Bilsaga and Madja, it was told.
He lived [in them] carefree and was hunting quite often.
sorry but there is more... maybe later if you want.
http://maps.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en& ... 068836&t=k
http://216.109.132.28/test.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/test1.jpg
here on a 1900 hungarian map
http://216.109.132.28/mappa.jpg
its identified as romer schanze on this map but that is certainly not decisive as it was common practise to identify large features as roman.
http://www.dvhh.org/mercydorf/info/imag ... sadany.jpg
its as big as Rome or Constantinople in 300AD [why 300AD? more later]
http://216.109.132.28/over.jpg
covering approximately 5000 acres.
the walls/ditches are massive, 300ft in cross section in some areas
http://216.109.132.28/t4.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/col1.jpg
and seem to show vestiges of a pallisade[?] in a few areas
http://216.109.132.28/t61a.jpg
it shares layout similarities with tongwan [outer city, inner city, palace city and inner sanctum]
http://www.china.org.cn/english/2004/Apr/92997.htm
the main walls cross over a known roman vallum
http://216.109.132.28/dacia100.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/dacia1.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/wall1.jpg
http://216.109.132.28/wall2.jpg
and it sure looks like the baths which should be there are either indicated on this map or here
http://216.109.132.28/bath.jpg or
http://216.109.132.28/bath1.jpg
seems to be a necropolis
http://maps.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en& ... 47593&om=1
and note the roman fort? hugging the vallum
http://maps.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en& ... 9,0.023797
its roots?
"The first town where Budapest is now located was built by the Celts and contained about 30 hectares along the slopes of Gellért Hill. The Romans occupied the town at the beginning of the Christian era. Its inhabitants moved to the Danube plains, to a city which kept the Celtic name (Ak ink), Aquincum, in the first century. "
http://216.109.132.28/lakes.jpg
also note name of the village Zsadany or Saden and the hun tribe Sadagariem mentioned here
http://tatar.yuldash.com/eng_187.html
looking for research references?
nothing at cultural memory romania timis county______________________________________
http://www.cimec.ro/Monumente/ListaMonu ... MonIst.htm
and not cultural memory hungary====================
http://mars.elte.hu/varak/terkep+lista2.php
then finally a "compilation" of findings 1979-1993 [poor translation incl]
============================================
http://216.109.132.28/cornesti.html
note that the offical report is maybe an avar ring but they understate the size by about 1000hectares
for fun here's Attilas palace
http://216.109.132.28/attila_1.jpg
with the back door
http://216.109.132.28/gate.jpg
easy reading
from priscus==========================
http://www29.homepage.villanova.edu/chr ... mbassy.htm
P.fr .9 Having crossed rivers mighty indeed—namely the Tisia, Tibisia, and Dricca—we came to the place where long ago Vidigoia, the bravest of the Goths, perished by the treachery of the Sarmatians. Not far from there we reached the village where king Attila was staying, a village, I say, like a very large city, in which we found wooden walls made with smooth planks, their jointure imitating solidity to such an extent that the union of the boards could scarcely be seen by close scrutiny. You might see there dining rooms extended to a liberal circumference and porticoes laid out in all splendor. The area of the courtyard was bounded by a huge circuit wall so that its very size might show it to be the royal palace. This was the house of Attila, the king who held the whole barbarian world, and he preferred this dwelling to the cities captured by him.
from DEATH OF BUDA A Hun Legend
===============================================
http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/human ... epics1.htm
As from the distance one approaches a hive of bees,
he sees a few insects flitting here and there - a
thickening swarm, a darting dance, and then a buzz
and zoom.
The hive booms; in and out the door a thousand
shining bees are crawling back on back. So teem
the swarms of busy men as Attila's town looms up
ahead.
Buda's camp, I think, is nothing compared to these
crowds that come and go and these palaces of Attila
that stretch for miles into the fields, towering
into the heavens.
This is a great range where unbroken stallions run;
a vast field betwixt where warriors train; palace on
corral and palace on corral - it would be hard, indeed,
indeed, to count them all.
At the camp's outer edge stood the servants' tents
with poles of plain fir notched. Farther in, the
tents were finer, the joints fitted smoothly with
a plane.
The palaces of the chieftains are clustered here and
there - so many proud, so many royal homes. Town
within town passes into fields, with green stretches
of distance between.
Women dwell in their secluded towns and rule over
their courts. Krimhilda passes swiftly, if she desires,
over a hanging corridor to her lord Attila's tent.
All this is work of marvellous craft. The awl argues
dead trees into blossoms and new leaves, unlike before,
painted in oil and unfamiliar colors.
The leaves are blood-red, the blossoms gold; branches
twist into hissing dragons where green birds perch
silently, birdlike bells tinkling in their stead.
In the center on a high hill is Attila's tent, the
topmost point shaded by the ancient Turul, tremendous
wings spreading for a flight, and wrought of solid
gold by its maker.
The columns flow to the ceiling, coiling like tendrils
now this way now that, the wood plated with gleaming
gold, and velvet tapestries swelling between.
from gibbon [note the bit where he mentions deceit on huns part leading to confusion over the location]
========================================
http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume1/chap34.htm
he was admitted to the royal presence; but, instead of obtaining a decisive answer, he was compelled to undertake a remote journey towards the North, that Attila might enjoy the proud satisfaction of receiving in the same camp the ambassadors of the Eastern and Western empires. His journey was regulated by the guides, who obliged him to halt, to hasten his march, or to deviate from the common road, as it best suited the convenience of the king. The Romans who traversed the plains of Hungary suppose that they passed several navigable rivers, either in canoes or portable boats; but there is reason to suspect that the winding stream of the Theiss, or Tibiscus, might present itself in different places under different names.
and from the DJAGFAR TARIHI
==========================================
http://216.109.132.28/DJAGFAR.html
Farang and Rum defeated by Atille
Paid to him huge tributes, it was told.
They built for him [cities] Bilsaga and Madja, it was told.
He lived [in them] carefree and was hunting quite often.
sorry but there is more... maybe later if you want.
Sandy Webb
