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Star-signs!
#16
Hi Ramesses
please spend a few minutes to go to the link I gave and read through the list of clues for detecting baloney, even if you do not find it immediately pertient. 8)
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#17
Greetings Goffredo.
that is one of the major problems.....there are people who do perpetrate fakes and write 'baloney' which makes people sceptical of somebody who has a genuine 'finding' but finds it hard to provide proof or convince people.
How many people believe in the vision of Lourdes for instance.....it may sound blasphemous but that could have been 'balony' (although St Bernadettes preserved body is awesome) - Yet those same people disbelieve in the Angel of Mons, seen by many soldiers during WWI and call it mass hallucination caused by the gas - but why?
What are known as 'Angels' are seen on a regular basis by people in every walk of life...the 'wings' thought to be an energy aura surrounding them..but mention to your doctor that you saw an 'angel' who talked to you and you will be classed as suffering a psychosis or/and hallucinations...
There are many charlatans out there, but there are also many genuine people trying to find ways to bring to the knowledge of others, what is very difficult to confirm in hard evidence.
I am a great believer in the mystical, but at times I find myself thinking 'bull....' when reading articles or books. People probably read some of my ideas and think the same.... :lol:
Ramseses mentions Orion and the Pyramids....there is the Dogon tribe of Africa and their knowledge of Sirius and its sibling white dwarf Sirius B, not discovered until 1862 and unseen by the naked eye ... people call that a hoax too....because it means the Dogons have knowledge that they simply should not have...
on a lighter note.....I once read my horoscope and it said 'authority will be looming over you' I had been talking to a 6'3" guy (i'm over 5'.6" and felt like a Hobbit) who turned out to be a prison officer.... Confusedhock:
regards
Arthes
Cristina
The Hoplite Association
[url:n2diviuq]http://www.hoplites.org[/url]
The enemy is less likely to get wind of an advance of cavalry, if the orders for march were passed from mouth to mouth rather than announced by voice of herald, or public notice. Xenophon
-
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#18
Hello
a profound question:
How do you distinguish charlatans?

Another profound questions:
Are you sure charlatans include all fakes?

Variation on the second question (a rephrasing):
Can a fake be sincere and hence not a charlatan?

Aside questions (actually the main issue?):
Are humans always true to themselves? (We know they lie to others! see charlatans). Can a person lie to himself? Can a person self deceive himself? Can a person profoundly believe in something and yet that something be complete non-sense? Does depth of conviction make something automatically true? Can a claim be considered authentic simply because the person making the claim appears to be or truly is sincere?

Of course we all know that wishful thinking, and brain-washing really do happen! So, again, How do you distinguish a fake? (A charlatan may be unmasked by tapping his phone or by trying to catch him with his pants down.)
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#19
Don't accuse me of taking a rational approach.
Ask your self what it means to be convinced of something. Ask then what it means to try to convince someone else. Even if you convince your familiy member, or group member (same tribe), someone with strong emotional ties to you, can you still convince someone down the hall, that has little or nothing in common with you.
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#20
Quote:Aside questions (actually the main issue?):
Are humans always true to themselves? (We know they lie to others! see charlatans). Can a person lie to hismself? Can a person self deceive himself? Can a person profoundly believe in something and yet that something be complete non-sense? Does depth of conviction make something automatically true? Can a claim be considered authentic simply because the person making the claim apperas to be or truely is sincere?

I believe in the astrological stuff, but there are also things I can hardly believe. There are things I'm quite sceptical about, as when people in astrology talk about certain kind of 'aliens' and stuff like that. But on the other hand there are many things in astrology which are believable. An example; I'm searching for my past lives (yes I believe we live more than one time). You barely have any proof that it might have been true, but then all those things are so logically matched together that it's hard not to believe. I'm doing that for two years now, and I must say it's quite fascinating what I've been through. A proof ? Regression. I've done that, well it's an experience I won't forget.
a.k.a. Daan Vanhamme
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#21
Quote:Don't accuse me of taking a rational approach.
Ask your self what it means to be convinced of something. Ask then what it means to try to convince someone else. Even if you convince your familiy member, or group member (same tribe), someone with strong emotional ties to you, can you still convince someone down the hall, that has little or nothing in common with you.

I'm hard to convince too, really. Especially in case of astrology. But there I believe the things I've experienced myself. I can perfectly imagine that you don't believe that stuff when you've never experienced it, and even then... But when you're a bit open minded towards "strange" things you find that you don't have to convince people of something that might exist.

I didn't believe in ghosts or some sort of spirits, until the day I've experienced something unusual. And it was certainly not my fantasy that started to imagine things. I believe we all have a kind of sixth sense, we all have subnormal gifts. Only almost nobody knows how to use it. I've got a very strong intuition, and it certainly helped me a lot. If you get somehow aware of the things you're surrounded with, you can see much more. We all have at least one guide who stays the rest of our lives with us, we only can't see him. The more we're in danger, the closer he gets. I've got a picture as proof, only like all the other things not many people believe.
a.k.a. Daan Vanhamme
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#22
"Taurus: April 21 to May 20:
Handsome, witty, intelligent, can drink anyone under the table."

Who said astrology's a load of rubbish?

Just look at this lineupy; Ed Murrow and Bob Woodward, Harvey Keitel, Saddam Hussein, (ironically) Catherine the Great and QEii and Oliver Cromwell (portrayed by another, Tim Roth), Marx and Lenin, Duke of Wellington, (flippin' 'eck, we've got the lot!), Leonardo Da Vinci, Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda, Rudolph Valentino (naturally), Liberace, Dante Alighieri, Shakespeare (et tu Brute), and last but not least, John Wayne. The list goes on.

What a gang!
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#23
From a book

Saggitarius
The best quality : frank, honest, open-minded and the enormous insight
The qualities to look after : to big optimism and overdoing

... which is true.

Famous people:
Woody Allen, Jane Austin, Ludwig van Beethoven, Anders Celsius, Sir Winston Churchill, Bill Cosby, Sammy Davies Jr., Joe DiMaggio, Walt Disney, Pablo Escobar, general Franco, Jimi Hendrix, Toon Hermans (Belgians and Dutch will know him), John Malkovich, Jim Morrison, Nostradamus, Sinead O'Connor, Augutsto Pinochet, Brad Pitt, Britney Spears, Steven Spielberg, Tina Turner, Madame Tussaud, ... etc.
a.k.a. Daan Vanhamme
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#24
Ramesses. How are you sure your intense experience is not an artifact of your brain? People sensory experience and mental reconstructions are not fool-proof. We do not posses objective and efficient sensors and we are certainly not passive and simply record an external world that displays itself to us like when we "passively" watch a film.

Actually the film metaphor a good example. Watching a film the spectators are more active than naively suspected. For one things they see a three dimensional world in a two dimensional screen. But they must also follow and then accept a story told by someone else that had to compose a sequence of images that had to "make sense". Bad films exist that convince nobody. Good films may have fans that see it dozens of times. Nothing objective nor passive, but a kind of conspiracy.

Never forget that our sense organs are very limited in performance and easily work bad if we are in an altered state due to hunger, thirst, lack of sleep, down right delusion (paranoia, assumption of drugs).

But we can go wrong even because of hypnosis, suggestion, manipulation of information at all levels (prejudice, propaganda, commercials,...).
More in general never underestimate that our making sense of our imperfect perceptions does a lot of "filling in the gaps" and we desperately look for relationships, cause-and-effect just to name one. Our species has a real talent for inventing relationships to make sense of things. We need to. We must. Nothing will keep us from doing it. We are hardwired to do it.

So even if your experience is shockingly true to you it still doesn't make it true. Ask yourself again. How am I sure my experience is really true. If it seems true to you, is that enough? Are you really the best judge?
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#25
Greetings,
Being tired actually increases your awareness and fasting before serious meditation is practiced by many spiritually aware sorts..
Humans use very little of their brain and the uses for the rest are, as yet, unknown.
Intuition, is sublimial messages that are being received from somewhere to warn or guide you... how often have you thought to yourself, 'I knew that was going to happen'...especially when you have ignored it? How do you know previously to the fact?
The ancients accepted the mystical and paranormal as being part of life and death was simply another life to them....as it probably is - we will all find out the truth one day :wink:
As for my own experiences, I know some of my own are truths as others have confirmed them. (I was once banned from visiting someones house after correctly telling them they had 'a ghost' ... they did not want to hear of any others..... :lol: ) Others I am still searching for answers to.
My own belief is 'just because you have not yet seen or experienced it, does not mean it does not exist'
Even America was a myth at one time......!
We all see things differently, some of us use more of our brain than others, some have greater sensitivity than others - our sixth sense varies from person to person just as much as the other five do...

Famous Aquarians include

Jackson Pollack - artist
Elijah Wood (also 28th January...hehe)
Abraham Lincoln
Germain Greer - feminist
Bob Marley
Lord Byron
Lewis Carroll
Charles Dickens
Collett
James Joyce
Christian Dior
C.A. Lindburgh
Thomas Edison
Wolfgang Mozart
Humphrey Bogart
Virginia Woolf
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Clark Gabel
Charles Lindberg.
..the list goes on...
http://www.ecentral.com/astra/faqua.html

regards
Arthes
Cristina
The Hoplite Association
[url:n2diviuq]http://www.hoplites.org[/url]
The enemy is less likely to get wind of an advance of cavalry, if the orders for march were passed from mouth to mouth rather than announced by voice of herald, or public notice. Xenophon
-
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#26
Quote:our sixth sense varies from person to person just as much as the other five do...
WW2 commandos were taught that while sneaking up on an enemy from behind they should never look at them directly, as the victim would probably sense they were there and turn around. That was in a documentary told by an ex-commando. The next day I was on the top deck of a bus and thought I'd try to get someone to turn around in the busy street outside, just to see if the stories were true. So I picked someone and just stared at their back. They turned around sharply within maybe 5 seconds and looked at me directly. It was very unnerving.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#27
Quote:Ramesses. How are you sure your intense experience is not an artifact of your brain? People sensory experience and mental recontructions are not fool-proof. We do not posses objective and efficient sensors and we are certainly not passive and simply record an external world that displays itself to us like when we "passively" watch a film.

Actually the film metaphor a good example. Watching a film the spectators are more active than naively suspected. For one things they see a three dimensional world in a two dimensional screen. But they must also follow and then accept a story told by someone else that had to compose a sequence of images that had to "make sense". Bad films exist that convince nobody. Good films may have fans that see it dozens of times. Nothing objective nor passive, but a kind of conspiracy.

Never forget that our sense organs are very limited in performance and easily work bad if we are in an altered state due to hunger, thrist, lack of sleep, down right delusion (paranoia, assumption of drugs).

But we can go wrong even because of hypnosis, suggestion, manipuilation of information at all levels (prejudice, propaganda, commercials,...).
More in general never underestimate that our making sense of our imperfect perceptions does a lot of "filling in the gaps" and we desparately look for relationships, cause-and-effect just to name one. Our species has a real talent for inventing relationships to make sense of things. We need to. We must. Nothing will keep us from doing it. We are hardwired to do it.

So even if your experience is shockingly true to you it still doesn't make it true. Ask yourself again. How am I sure my experience is really true. If it seems true to you, is that enough? Are you really the best judge

It was no dream, it were no commercials or propaganda, suggestion or whatever. And certainly no hypnosis. I suggest you do it once, the regression. Then we'll talk again. Someone who hasn't done it yet can impossibly know what it's like. To you it is some sort of dream/fantasy/whatever. Well I can definitely say it is certainly not something like that.

Ever had a flashback to one of your past lives, in the middle of the day? A time I can't remember, but people who were there were quite amazed when (what they said: ) "I suddenly some kind of fainted and started to talk in a strange language to people who weren't there". I don't think you can make something up like that. Talking to a kid of the age of 8 in a classroom is not something you make up. And no I wasn't drunk or hadn't taken drugs...

Those experiences made me just believe more and more there was more than we humans are aware of. I know I'm not the best judge to myself, other people are. Other people who don't believe, but who have seen it. The man where I had the regression hadn't seen or heard me until I was there. The fact I can feel when there's something wrong with my friends or family, even though I haven't heard something of them, and when I arrive there seems to be something wrong. I've got a friend who hadn't got a bad moment for about two weeks, and suddenly he was very sad, for a reason the others who were with him right then couldn't figure out. Seemed to be that at that very moment his best friend had killed himself, a couple of kilometers further. It's not for nothing those things happen. Probably for you it is, probably to some stupid science-stuff is. To me, it isn't. To people over here who believe in those stuff, it isn't.

I guess we better leave it here, we're running around in circles.
a.k.a. Daan Vanhamme
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#28
Well we are getting no where with this "discussion". I am a skeptic you are a believer. Faith vs doubt is as old as the world and fortunately will be with us in the future. It would be a boring world if everyone believed the same thing without question. I am fond of skeptics but everything is OK anyway. Ciao and take care
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#29
Quote:Well we are getting no where with this "discussion". I am a skeptic you are a believer. Faith vs doubt is as old as the world and fortunately will be with us in the future. It would be a boring world if everyone believed the same thing without question. I am fond of skeptics but everything is OK anyway. Ciao and take care

The first time in this topic I agree :lol: :wink:
a.k.a. Daan Vanhamme
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#30
That was well settled guys. A laudes for each one of you.

As for myself, I've read way too much serious research to dimiss all of this regression stuff as bogus.

However, it must be remarked that the 'regression'-session is extremely difficult. Because the person under hypnosis is extremely susceptible to suggestion, the therapist must take extreme caution. I've been told that no serious therapist who ever uses this form of therapy will ever do this sort of thing with healthy people. The only scientific research was done under strict guidelines.

And there you have it. For one, regression is a form of therapy, and to offer regression 'for fun' or similar non-theraputic experiences is already considered as very unprofessibnal amongst therapists. For those who nontheless offer it as some sort of 'experience into one's past live(s), it can by no means be expected to refrain from any suggestion which might influence the person under hypnosis. Any 'past life' experience may be due as much to yourself as to the person in the other chair.

Therefore I consider most if not all regression 'experiences' that were not part of a serious scientific experiment or a healing therapy, useless in a discussion to determine if this stuff is real or not. If you go to some hypnotist who 'does' regression I would not think much of the results you get. You may be lucky if you get away with a sound mind though, for people have been known to get mental problems if this sort of thing is done by people who are in it for the money or without the full knowledge of what they are doing.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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