Julius Caesar: "Sôter" ?

[Jona Lendering]

The son of Cleopatra and Julius Caesar, Ptolemy XV Caesarion, is called Iwapanetjerentynehem Setepenptah Irmaatenra Sekhemankhamun. The last three names mean 'Chosen by Ptah, Dispenser of the justice of Ra, Living power of Amun'. This is unproblematic.

The trouble is the first word, which has several meanings. The same title is used by Ptolemy XII the Flutist; in his case, it means "Son of the Savior", the savior being his father Ptolemy IX Sôter. This is normal practice. For example Ptolemy IV is called, Iwaennetjerwymenkhwy, 'son of the divine benefactors', i.e., Ptolemy III Euergetes / Benefactor.

It is reasonable to deduce from Caesarion's Egyptian surname that his father was surnamed 'savior'. However, is there any evidence that Julius Caesar was ever called Sôter?

[Tarbicus]

You know there's a theory that the story of Christ is based on the life of Julius Caesar.

'Jesus was Caesar'

[Jona Lendering]

Yes; I have also read the book and I have never seen so much crap on so few pages. The author wrote me a message because he felt offended by my remark at link from old RAT. He was capable of making two logic mistakes -both described two millennia ago by Aristotle- in about ten lines, which gave me the impression that my reply would be a waste of energy. He never replied to my courteous reply.

What worries me is that there are so many nonsensical books. Here's a link to another topic: link from old RAT. How can authors fool the people who put much trust in them? People who spend money to buy books deserve an honest author, not a cheat. I simply do not understand.

Worse, if people are employed by a university, that is not a guarantee that they don't write rubbish. Here in Amsterdam, a professor has published a book on the history of the Roman empire. It contains more than 340 factual errors. Titles are misquoted, there are inconsistencies, he mentions wrong regnal years and other dates, makes geographic errors, accepts propaganda for fact. On a map of the Roman empire in the second century before Christ, he shows the Taunus limes.

Because I know this man, I wrote him about an error that he could easily admit without loosing face. I hoped he would reply by asking that if I noticed other errors, I would tell him. He did not ask for it. Still, I had eleven pages with constructive criticism. Now it happens that he and I share our publisher. So I wrote the publisher and asked if he could tactfully send the professor my comments. In his reply, the publisher referred to taking back the book from the stores; so he knows that the book is bad. Still, it has been reprinted twice, without revision.

So here we have a professor who publishes a lousy book; a publisher who knows that it is lousy; people who trust the professor, spend their good money and are fooled; and -worst of all- a professor who thinks that he does not have to look for the truth.

One would think that university people would do things to prevent the Carotta's, Velikovski's, and Von Däniken. Here in Amsterdam, we have a professor who has joined them. Mens sana qui mal y pense.

[Jona Lendering]

I hasten to add that the question is not about Caesar as Christ, or about bad books, but about evidence that Caesar was called Sôter.

[Thiudareiks Flavius]

You know there's a theory that the story of Christ is based on the life of Julius Caesar.

'Jesus was Caesar'

I've come across a particularly prolific proponent of that 'theory' on another board. The flights of fantasy masquerading as 'evidence' and 'arguments' supporting this crackpot idea are absolutely hilarious. He peppered that board with multiple threads on the subject and then, when they were largely ignored, inserted lengthy posts on other threads in a desperate attempt at getting some attention.

So I, and a few others, took one of his longer posts and ripped it to shreds, demonstrating just how many logical fallacies, misreadings of evidence, mistranslations and general kookery this bizarre theory is based on. He became a laughing stock and soon disappeared.

And there was much rejoicing.

[Tarbicus]

I've come across a particularly prolific proponent of that 'theory' on another board....

Begin with 'U' and end with 'V'? - I was there.

Jona, does the "Saviour" part of Caesarion's name have to have been there from when he was born? Could it have been added later after Caesar was dead and deified?

[Marcus F.]

Julius Caesar was married to Mary Magdalene...... according to a little almost unrecognizable drawing of Picasso (who belonged to the Priory of Lion) :wink:

[Robert Vermaat]

(who belonged to the Priory of Lion) :wink:

Do you mean the Priory of Sion?

[Jona Lendering]

I propose that we must move the discussion about silly books to "off topic". Here is a link: [url:15u4q6jl]http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?p=67086[/url]

Jona, does the "Saviour" part of Caesarion's name have to have been there from when he was born? Could it have been added later after Caesar was dead and deified?

In that case, we would have had an Egyptian expression that means 'son of the savior god'. So I think the reference is to Sôter/Savior specifically.

[Tarbicus]

Sorry Jona.

My question about the possibility of 'Saviour' being added later as Caesarion's surname is to do with Caesar becoming a deity and therefore possibly regarded as a 'saviour' after his death, and his son taking that as part of his name when that happened.

[Jona Lendering]

It is possible, certainly; but I am looking for evidence that this hypothesis is correct.

[Tarbicus]

This page -[url:113uv1ld]http://www.bartleby.com/60/102.html[/url]- has the following quote:

Cæsar is greeted in contemporary Greek documents as “the Saviour of the entire race of men.

History
II. Ancient History
By Professor William Scott Ferguson

There's also a reference from Appian:

Statues represented him in many different guises, and some of them showed him wearing a crown of oak leaves as the saviour of his country...

[url:113uv1ld]http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/calendar/ides.html[/url]

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

YEOWWW!!!
Tarbicus, that is one scary image!!
Please tell me you've not abandoned
your polka-dot knickers.

Sorry for the "OT".

[Jona Lendering]

Yes! Thanks!!

This is really interesting. Caesarion's title can therefore mean 'son of Soter', but there is more to it. The title is one of the epitetha of Horus, who had to avenge his father Osiris, who had been killed. Cleopatra, who already presented herself as Isis, presented her son, therefore, as the future killer of Brutus and Cassius.

[Tarbicus]

YEOWWW!!!
Tarbicus, that is one scary image!!
Please tell me you've not abandoned
your polka-dot knickers. wink: And I never wore polka-dot knickers....
[quote="Jona Lendering":35ivho8f]Yes! Thanks!!

Good. Sorry about pointing out the lunatics...