Rawhide Shield Edging

[FAVENTIANVS]

That's very interesting! I didn't know that detail! Can you please email it to me Tarbicus?

email: ivarmaelstromatyahoodotcom

[Tarbicus]

That's very interesting! I did't know that detail! Can you please email it to me Tarbicus?

I'll post the pertinent bit tomorrow. I was literally reading it in the pub earlier before everyone turned up, and thought "Huh?"

addendum: And the other interesting thing he said was that soldiers were still wearing their tunica baggy, pulled up over their belts.

[Flavius Promotus]

Are the reasons for edging the entire edge of a scutum to do with the Dura Europas scuta? Because the only place rawhide edging was used on scuta was on the corners, not the entire rim. Leather was stitched on to the rim to keep the plywood planks together, and rawhide used to reinforce the corners. At least according to Simon James' catalogue.

Cancel 'leather' and replace with 'rawhide'. There is no use in using leather for the rim, since rawhide serves the same purpose in a much better way. Dried leather and rawhide are sometimes difficult to keep apart, so archaeological reports mentioning leather rims should be handled with extreme care.

Furthermore, the well-known "Dura-Europos corner rawhide patches for rectangular scuta" have been, at least in my opinion, a misunderstanding. If you turn the wet and soft rawhide strip 90° around at the corners, unsightly folds appear. If you press these folds down (e.g. with a small piece of plywood on both sides and a clamp) and let the rawhide shrink, the compressed folds look vaguely like a small rectangle (personal experience). If you then try to stitch over the rim of these compressed folds with saddler stitch, in order to keep them down where they belong(as the old drawing from Herbert J. Gute suggests), you get a structure which looks somehow like a patch, but it isn't one!


By the way, for those who are interested, i've listes up the measurements for the Dura-Europos shields' saddler stitch holes:

Oval 617: distance between holes = 1 – 1,2 cm.
Distance holes - rim = 0,6 – 0,8 cm.

Oval 619: distance between holes = 0,6 – 0,9 cm. Distance holes - rim = 0,8 – 1 cm.

Oval 625: distance between holes = 1,8 – 2 cm. Distance holes - rim = 1,5 cm.

Fragment Oval 626: distance between holes = 1,8 – 2 cm. Distance holes -rim = 1 cm.

Fragment Oval 628: distance between holes = 1,2 cm. Distance holes - rim = 0,4 cm (sic !).

All measurements from James (and all are average figures)

No such measurements are known for the rectangular shields, but for shield 629 (= THE shield), the width of the rawhide strip is known = 3,5 - 5 cm.

Hope that helps

[Tarbicus]

Here are the very words from the Final Report of the excavations at Dura Europos:

P. 163:

The semicylindrical 629 had strips of leather 35-50 mm wide sewn over its edges. The stitching for such edging is still in situ on 631, although the skin itself is gone. It was added after the gesso. As mentioned above, apart from protecting the edge of the wood from wear and tear the edging also prevented the ply from springing open. Extra pieces of leather were attached to the vulnerable corners of 629 with rawhide, but no trace of these is to be seen on 631.

Note the extra leather on the corners was attached with rawhide.

P. 168:

A common find on European military sites is copper alloy edge-binding strip from shields .... It is completely lacking at Dura, where shields had a stitched leather edging.

For the bossed oval shields Simon James acknowledges that leather or rawhide could have been used for edging (NB: he differentiates between the two - very important). None of that edging survives and the original notes are vague.

[Flavius Promotus]

Here are the very words from the Final Report of the excavations at Dura Europos

Dear Tarbicus,

I know this passage - I've got the book at hand :wink:

When I exchanged thoughts about this problem with Simon James some time ago, he directed my attention to the fact that, just as you wrote, none of the edging strips survive for us to make observations (cp. Dura VII, 162): "In at least some, if not all, examples the stitching fixed a strip of leather or perhaps rawhide, 20-30 mm wide, around the rim. None of these now survive in situ, but they were observed during excavation (Rep. II, 72)."

He also mentioned that the Dura rectangular 629 (the shield upon which almost all modern rectangular shields are based) was so massively 'repaired' during the 30ies and 40ies, that any attempt at reconstructing its original condition is now totally hopeless.

In short, we can prove neither leather nor rawhide. But I think all 'Neo-Romans' with a rawhide shield edging will agree that a leather edging is (Darth Vader mode on) "insignificant compared to the power of the rawhide edging" (Darth Vader mode off).

So be it - rawhide

[Tarbicus]

So be it - rawhide Very Happy

Errmm; so be it rawhide, or leather :wink:

I really don't care that much because I'm not making an impression of an eastern legionary, so cupric alloy or brass is my choice. I understand the reasoning behind rawhide and always have, but as we all know we can sometimes end up saying, "Why the hell did they do that? It would have made so much more sense if they had <insert more sensible technique> instead."

One thing is obvious from the book, and that is rawhide was used to reinforce handgrips. I'll use my doggy chews for that.

[FAVENTIANVS]

What's the difference between leather and rawhide? I mean, after removing the animal's skin, what are the different processes to follow to obtain rawhide and simple leather?

[Flavius Promotus]

One thing is obvious from the book, and that is rawhide was used to reinforce handgrips. I'll use my doggy chews for that.

You are right! (cp. James, 163)
Hmmm... have to buy a doggy chew bone :?
Given the fact that wet rawhide starts to get very smelly, I'll have to wash my hand relatively often...

Faventianus, I'll try to explain the difference between rawhide and leather. However, I am no expert on this matter, so whoever knows more about this, feel free to correct me (politely :wink: ).

Leather is tanned animal skin, which has either been tanned during a natural process (think of bog bodies), or - usually - during an artificial tanning process using either oak, alum, chrome (modern way of tanning) or other substances. Leather is flexible, long-lasting (if treated well), and watertight if properly greased. Leather can be cut relatively easily.

Rawhide is untanned animal skin (but fat, fur and flesh have to be removed, too). Rawhide is stiff, sometimes almost semi-transparent, and very tough (hard to cut with a knife - a saw works better). If you soak rawhide with water, it becomes very soft, can be cut easily, and its volume increases. It shrinks and becomes hard argain when you dry it.

While leather does not decompose in a wet surrounding (think of Roman shoes from wells), rawhide does! That's the reason why we have no finds of rawhide from e.g. Europe, while there have been finds from extremely dry climates (Egypt or Syria = Dura-Europos!).

Rawhide is used for drums, lampshades, as a replacement for window glass in primitive cultures, and for covering the wooden core of a shield.

Northern bogs have revealed shields with a layer of leather on their wooden cores, but this is obviously the result of a natural tanning process (the rawhide slowly turned into leather - but Caius Tarquitius knows more about this).

[FAVENTIANVS]

[size=200:1fa5rjzd]Now I understand![/size]

Thanks Florian!

[Flavius Promotus]

You're welcome :wink:

[caiusbeerquitius]

I wrote a lot about this in my thesis. Everyone who wants a copy, cry out loud, I'll email it. (5. something MB)

Caius

[Caius Fabius]

One question before I ask for a copy....
What language is your thesis?

[caiusbeerquitius]

Natürlich Englisch. Sonst wäre es eine Magisterarbeit.

{English, of course. Otherwise it would be a Magisterarbeit }

[Caius Fabius]

Well, you are so fluent in both languages (and probably others), that I feel compelled to ask!

I would like a copy!

[email protected]

:lol:

[caiusbeerquitius]

There you are.