parma

[caiusbeerquitius]

Most modern repros you see seem to be flat. But since there seem to be basically no shield bosses among the findings that were intended to go onto flat shields (e.g. Illerup: Less than ten out of almost 500, among these most are so badly preserved, that no statement can be made) IMO a slightly dished version would be closer to the findings.

[Marcus Mummius]

Most modern repros you see seem to be flat. But since there seem to be basically no shield bosses among the findings that were intended to go onto flat shields (e.g. Illerup: Less than ten out of almost 500, among these most are so badly preserved, that no statement can be made) IMO a slightly dished version would be closer to the findings.

Do you think the 3rd century Illerup finds can be used to state this about the parma in the 1st century AD ? :?

Vale,

[P. Clodius Secundus]

I carry a parma for my cornicien impression. The handle is horizontal and that works out just fine since it spends most of it's time hanging from the sling. My sling has a solid ring on the left attachment point and a brass J-hook on the right. That allows me to easily hook/unhook the shield without working it around the bear pelt. The top rim rests just under my armpit when I'm playing the horn over my left shoulder. When carring my smaller home-made cornu I can rotate the horn 90 degrees forward and slide the center bar down on top of the parma handle. The cornu lays flat round the parma and hangs from the shield sling as well. this frees up my left hand. I can also wrap my hand around the shield and horn handles and grasp them together.

[Gaius]

Do you think the 3rd century Illerup finds can be used to state this about the parma in the 1st century AD ? :?

Vale,

So, what kind of evidence do we have for a flat parma shield? We are talking of a "classic" parma here...

Vale

[Marcus Mummius]

Do you think the 3rd century Illerup finds can be used to state this about the parma in the 1st century AD ? :?

Vale,

So, what kind of evidence do we have for a flat parma shield? We are talking of a "classic" parma here...

Vale

We can not be sure that any of the round umbones dated to the 1st century AD were fitted to a parma. I also do not know if all the round 1st century umbones that were found have a flat flange or not.

Sculptural evidence often points towards flat parmae. This is one example (early second century): http://www.thorsberg-miniatures.de/art_ ... -mil-4.jpg

[Gaius]

I see...it's a very interesting subject. So if I understand correctly, the tipically reconstructed flat parma for standard-bears is more a convention based in sculptural evidence than in actual findings, because we can not assess if any of the rounded umbones we know (being flat-flanged or not) belonged to parma-like shields or not.

[Marcus Mummius]

I see...it's a very interesting subject. So if I understand correctly, the tipically reconstructed flat parmae for standard-bears is more a convention based in sculptural evidence than in actual findings, because we can not assess if any of the rounded umbones we know (being flat-flanged or not) belonged to parma-like shields or not.

Indeed, that's about it. The dimension of most reenactor's parmae is based on Polybius text (writing about an earlier period than the 1st century AD). But I don't think he says anything about them being dished or curved.

Vale,

[Gaius]

And what dimensions are those, if you have the data at hand?

[Marcus Mummius]

Polybius states that the parma, used by velites was 3 feet in diameter.

Also keep in mind the second post of this thread on the diameter of the parma:

I based mine on the leather tegimen fragments from Castleford. It measures approximately 600mm (24") (click on the photo to enlarge)

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... rma002.jpg

regards,

Vale,

[Gaius]

Yeah you are true, i forgot that post...; so, we are talking about a diameter that ranges from 60 to 90 cm aprox...and maybe a flatish design but with doubts.

Vale

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

So the one in the sculpture, if based on a real article, was covered in scales? there fore possibly does not have an umbo?

[Gaius]

I interpret the scales as a painted design...but certainly the artist missed the umbo.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I can see your point, but also can imagine someone of his rank having a parma covered in scales!! Would be highly impressive!

[Gaius]

Yes, that would be very...roman i'd say.

[Marcus Mummius]

The Römercohorte Opladen have a parma with the feathers painted onto it. Their parma has an umbo. Sorry, I can't locate a picture of it...

Vale,