Advice needed about water flask

[Peroni]

It's very similar to the terra sigillata vessel from the Mazarron mines in Spain. The dimensions are about the same.

http://venetiancat.com/Canteen-Original.jpg

Regards,

[Marcus Mummius]

I'm really wondering how well a waterskin would stand up to use. It can't be that weak, can it? Can it be easily damaged by wearing it on a segmentata? I think I also prefer the theory of some kind of leather container. A drinking container was such a common item that I think more of them should have been found if they were mainly made out of ceramics or metal.

Most likely a variety of vessels were used (gourds, ceramic canteens,...) but the ones in leather were used in largest quantities?

By the way, is the Saddlers Denn the only supplier for them or do you guys know of other dealers?

Kind regards,

[Martin Moser]

Hi Jef,

Can it be easily damaged by wearing it on a segmentata?

I'd say no - see my post above on page 2 of this thread.

[Marcus Mummius]

Thanks Martin.

By the way where did you get your waterskin from? Do you know of any good sources in Germany?

Kind regards,

[Martin Moser]

I made my own, that's now more than 10 years ago, come to think of it. It's a fake one though, with a plastic inside. Guess that's the reason I haven't used it in years now. I remember I did experiment with a real bladder, but I couldn't get rid of the stench of it and it was a REALLY bad stench ...

[Marcus Mummius]

What do you use to carry water now?

Vale,

[Martin Moser]

Hi Jef,

as we have been doing almost exclusively museum events over the last years with me explaining medical stuff mostly, a simple beaker does the job. I have been looking for something for a while now and am about to order some of Iulia's waterflasks now.

[Caballo]

Hi,

Came acriss this passage by chance in Sallust "The war against Jugurtha".
" XCI: Now every day during the march Marius had distributed cattle equally among the centuries and the divisions of cavalry, taking care that bottles for water should be made from the hides (ex coriis utres uti fierent curabat) ....when they finally reached the river on the sixth day, a great quantity of bottles had been prepared...he ordered the soldiers to eat their dinners and be ready to march at sunset throwing aside all their baggage and loading them selves and the pack animals with water only."
Sensible man- a forced march in North Africa needs water!!

Proof that leather waterbottles were used as well as ones from other materials?

Cheers

Caballo

[Dan Diffendale]

Proof that leather waterbottles were used as well as ones from other materials?

Or possibly that they weren't standard, which is why it was worth Sallust's time noting their use and material on this occasion?

Or maybe it's an example of what a "good commander" does in such a situation?

But certainly proof that they were within the realm of possibilities.

[Carlton Bach]

I have to say this sounds more like leather waterskins than flasks. Their use is entirely uncontroversial.

My Latin dictionary (Stowasser) says 'uter' means water-/wineskin, cognate of the Greek 'hydria'.

Certainly a story highlighting the forethought and careful planning of the Roman leaders, though.

[Mithras]

I hate to sound negative, but were water flasks/canteens/bottles that popular? We need them for our long marches because the water in Britain is untrustworthy. In Roman times you drink from streams, you camp by streams. In forts or during hard work away from the fort, girls or servants bring water in jugs and you take a drink when you need it (incidentally this is the way we drink during events in hot weather). You need to carry water perhaps in high summer or in hot climates, Africa, Syria etc.

I don't believe everyone had their own waterskin/canteen. Far from it.

[Robert Vermaat]

I don't believe everyone had their own waterskin/canteen. Far from it.

So how did they carry water when not near streams? Contubernium amphorae? (Not joking)

[Mithras]

I don't know the answer ... I just remember reading a wilderness survival web page from the US that exhorted its readers to 'get back to basics' after people were fashioning stools, tables, cups in the wilderness! It said, lets use what mother nature gave us, get to a stream and cup your hand. It doesn't have alot to do with this topic, but it did just stay with me as a reminder that 'conveniences' we assume were used, were perhaps not.

Amphorae? Barrels? Large goatskin waterskins? Buckets. Bucket empty, send someone in the contubernium to the stream to get another bucket ful.

Perhaps I like my Roman-daily-life to be tough and hard and inconvenient. hock:

Just remember that millions of people in the Developing World today still walk miles to bring back their daily water supply.

[Matthew Amt]

Bless you, Paul, for having the guts to stand up and point that out! I certainly agree that we don't have conclusive proof that every man had a flask or canteen.

Matthew

[Phocks]

Well, first thing, I think that it is quite possible that wether or not a canteen of some sort was carried probably varied by quite lot, considering the extent of the area where the legions were operating, their very wide range of duties and finally, the 500+ years they were in use.
Next, Since we don't have (and probably never will, unfortunately) any direct, un-ambiguous evidence, like so much else, we'll have to go on a mixture of conjecture, common sense and comparable modern institution.
Personally, I doubt there was ever a standard simply because of the huge variations of climate that the legions campaigned in. However, for practicalities sake, I simply can't see any force on an active campaign not having at least a minimal water supply that can be accessed on the march or, more importantly, during an engagement. The Romans were nothing if not practical, and a dehydrated man is as good as a dead one in a close fight. Even in a cool climate, fighting (with or without) armor is heavy, sweaty, work. I can't see the centurions letting their milites get away with taking a nap just because of heat exhaustion either.
On the other hand, Roman history is quite full of legions and auxilia settling into "garrison mode" and I think it's easily concievable that after a couple of generations of customs and construction duty, fieldcraft could suffer to the extent of, among other things, discarding heavy water containers.
Finally, as regards to comparable practices, it's always more practical to send one man to fill canteens than send the whole contunubia (squad) out to fill their own - and I think anyone who's spent more than 15 minutes as an NCO knows exactly what I mean- and that's one thing I *know* hasn't changed in 2,000 years :evil:

Damien