04-07-2003, 10:48 PM
Hello all. There was a very interesting thread that I read recently that was talking about Lor. Segmentata and how to put it on by yourself versus a buddy. The discussion lead to a very hot debate on the effectivness of armor itself. I can't find/remember where it was and I wanted to add my own "duo denarii"<br>
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What I wanted to say was that one should keep in mind (as far as I know ) that the shield was to be used as the main means of defense, and that the Roman soldier was dependent on his training and group/unit tactics in battle. I believe that armor of the time was meant as a "last ditch" defense, and that the shield was meant to take the punishment; to be used both offensively and defensively. I esspecially think of the Republican shield and it's very large size and "beefyness" and how Testudo and other formations are used. During my Arms and Armor Demos at Higgins Armory, I'll say "It's like a huge marching wall with sharp pointy thingys (referring to the Gladius being drawn).<br>
<br>
From my perspective, I see that the 3 main types of [Roman] armors, Maille/Hamata, Scale/Squamata, Plate/Segmentata, are basically designed to defend against downwards, diagonal, and sideways slashing and cutting attacks, and neither do a particularly great job versus hard thrusts, smashing, and "uppercuts". Think of Greek/Hoplite armor, the Bronze cuirass and Linothorax...would you <em>really</em> want to take a direct thrust in either of those? I sure wouldn't! That's what the darn shields are for! So I'm thinking that body armor at the time is really meant as a secondary means of protection, behind the shield, for those unexpected hits and cuts and that it's up to the shield and unit/formation fighting that protects the soldiers.<br>
<br>
We don't see armor built for direct punishment until full plate armor comes along in the 15th and 16th centuries.<br>
<br>
So, that being said...For putting on one's armor, I think it's both. When you're in a hurry you can put it on yourself, but otherwise it's nice to have a buddy or some poor Probato on latrine duty help you out. (He'll have to learn how to do it himself too someday!) I'm sure my comment will change once I myself start waring Lor. Segmentata for a Roman Demo at Higgins soon. (it's the Newstead type!)<br>
<br>
::hiding behind scutum::<br>
-ANDY <p></p><i></i>
<br>
What I wanted to say was that one should keep in mind (as far as I know ) that the shield was to be used as the main means of defense, and that the Roman soldier was dependent on his training and group/unit tactics in battle. I believe that armor of the time was meant as a "last ditch" defense, and that the shield was meant to take the punishment; to be used both offensively and defensively. I esspecially think of the Republican shield and it's very large size and "beefyness" and how Testudo and other formations are used. During my Arms and Armor Demos at Higgins Armory, I'll say "It's like a huge marching wall with sharp pointy thingys (referring to the Gladius being drawn).<br>
<br>
From my perspective, I see that the 3 main types of [Roman] armors, Maille/Hamata, Scale/Squamata, Plate/Segmentata, are basically designed to defend against downwards, diagonal, and sideways slashing and cutting attacks, and neither do a particularly great job versus hard thrusts, smashing, and "uppercuts". Think of Greek/Hoplite armor, the Bronze cuirass and Linothorax...would you <em>really</em> want to take a direct thrust in either of those? I sure wouldn't! That's what the darn shields are for! So I'm thinking that body armor at the time is really meant as a secondary means of protection, behind the shield, for those unexpected hits and cuts and that it's up to the shield and unit/formation fighting that protects the soldiers.<br>
<br>
We don't see armor built for direct punishment until full plate armor comes along in the 15th and 16th centuries.<br>
<br>
So, that being said...For putting on one's armor, I think it's both. When you're in a hurry you can put it on yourself, but otherwise it's nice to have a buddy or some poor Probato on latrine duty help you out. (He'll have to learn how to do it himself too someday!) I'm sure my comment will change once I myself start waring Lor. Segmentata for a Roman Demo at Higgins soon. (it's the Newstead type!)<br>
<br>
::hiding behind scutum::<br>
-ANDY <p></p><i></i>