Late roman history

[Woadwarrior]

i am studying this but ide like to here what you have to say

im reading a good book called the decline and fall of the roman empire

how was the roman army different being christian and all. is there any reenactments, or pics, of what a late roman soldier looked like?

was rome like abandoned after the capitol was moved to ravenna? was roman life still going on?

after the visigoths captured rome, what happened? did they have to use sige towers/? what happened to roman life in the city?

was the senate still going on, and baths beings used, games being used etc.?

how was the christian romans different from the pagan ones, especially in the military?

what was the visigoth military like???

i ll read what ever you guys write

[Robert Vermaat]

So many questions, so many time constraints.. :?

i am studying this but ide like to here what you have to say
im reading a good book called the decline and fall of the roman empire

Gibbon's masterpiece, by any chance? If so, remember it's very old....

how was the roman army different being christian and all. is there any reenactments, or pics, of what a late roman soldier looked like?
Well, most of the army became only truly Christian during the 4th century, and even at the very end of that century there were units proudly presenting pagan symbols (394 AD, battle of the Frigidus). Al;so, the many Germanic recruits or mercenaries won't have been Christian either. I know Gibbon blames Christianity for the fall of Rome, but if that were the case indeed the influence won't have been as big as economics, dynastic problems or the environment.

was rome like abandoned after the capitol was moved to ravenna? was roman life still going on?
Rome went on as usual, a bit neglected but still very much the main city of the West. The sack of 410 was only very slight, and it's not until the sack of 455 (which was a nasty affair, for sure) and the years after that, that we see a steep decline. In 472 there was a civil war (between Anthemius and Ricimer) in the city which destroyed many buildings and led to a third sack. However, it was the Gothic wars of the 6th century that really meant the end. After Totila conquers Rome (December 17, 546 AD), Belisarius retreats from the city, which is sacked by the Ostrogoths for 40 days. After Totila has captured most of the city population and resettled them in Campania, the population may have numbered as few as 500.

was the senate still going on, and baths beings used, games being used etc.?
Yes, but the senate had not much to say over Imperial affairs. They were powerful enough though to influence the fate of the many Late Roman Emperors/usurpers.

what was the visigoth military like???
hah! Why not ask me something difficult? Of course that varied from their situation in souther Russia until the after the sack of Rome and their final settlement in Gaul. It's too big to answer here. Suffice to say that after Adrianople, the Visigoths were not a barbarian people roaming the Roman countryside, but a group of bands or armies, waxing and waning after their leaders' failures or successes. Often Romans joined them, and often they fought withing the Roman armies. Alarick's forces were no Gothic tribal mass, but an almost regular army (in fact that was what he always asked of Stilicho, to be on the patroll as a regular force), resembling far more a general and his comitatenses instead of a barbarian warlord with a mass of ox-pulled wagons behind him.

[FAVENTIANVS]

http://www.fectio.org.uk/shows/archeon2005.htm

[Gaius Honorius Felix]

Ok WoadWarrior; first off you have some great people answering your questions. Second, not to be mean but please spell check on your posts.

[Woadwarrior]

yes i am sorry about my misspellings, i just type really fast.
and i appreciate ALL the people who replied to all my posts.

and yes gibbon

hey what happened to my post on the renactments, i cant reply to it

[tlclark]

Woadwarrior

First get anything by Averil Cameron for civil history.

For Religious history, I would look at Peter's Brown, cult of the Saints or Late Antiquity.

For Art and imagery, check out Thomas Mathews "Clash of the Gods" and Jas Elsner's "Art and the Roman Viewer"

There are a great many on military history, for equipment, Stephensons' and of course Bishop's are very good.

My own personal take, first, by the late 3rd C. the roots of medieval society were already laid, and Late Roman society was far more medieval in appearance and custom that most would ever recognize. Also, there is no fine line between barbarians and Romans after the fourth century. Nearly all barbarians had been sufficiently Romanized.

Rome had already dropped in population by nearly a half before the fifth century, so its decline is not merely a matter of barbarian invasion as Robert suggests. The last big thing built in Rome were the Christian churches under Constantine's donation, which frankly weren't lavish affairs. The Baths of Constantine, one of the last lavish public buildings has a great semi-circular palestra, demonstrating the ingenuity of the architects, but they are less than a third of the size of Diocletians baths, and even then Diocletian's baths had less than half the number of hot rooms as Caracalla's because fuel was an issue. The economic decline preceded the invasion in nearly all cases.

Travis

[Woadwarrior]

what happened to my other post

[Woadwarrior]

bumpety bump bump

can sumone explain the evolution of the roman army, what was it like in julius casars time, i know it was the basically the famous lorica segmentata armor, gladius, pilum and scutum shield, but what was the soldiers like in the very early times, and the very late times.?

[tlclark]

bumpety bump bump

can sumone explain the evolution of the roman army, what was it like in julius casars time, i know it was the basically the famous lorica segmentata armor, gladius, pilum and scutum shield, but what was the soldiers like in the very early times, and the very late times.?

Go over to Fectio's site and then PM Vortigern Studies (Robert) He has the military transformations down cold. In the late period I'm really much better on the architecture art and culture. I lapse into silence around Robert to mask my ignorance of military matters.



Travis

[Robert Vermaat]

can sumone explain the evolution of the roman army, what was it like in julius casars time, i know it was the basically the famous lorica segmentata armor, gladius, pilum and scutum shield, but what was the soldiers like in the very early times, and the very late times.?

I could write an article of 5000 words on it, or tell you in just a few words what IMHO changed in the 3rd century. But I should probably tell you right away that I'm not an expert on anything before c. 250 AD. Maybe someone could start with that and I could follow?

Or else, try and search this forum, we have been discussing this topic for years..
I could also recommend some Osprey books for a good overview if you want?

[Woadwarrior]

i have been to that site, i really like the renactments. but how can those be romans i thought those were some kind of barbarians?

[Robert Vermaat]

Ah, now that's easily explained (it seems we have to explain that a lot to the public). It fashion.
You have images of Roman soldiers wearing short-sleeved tunics, no trousers, segmetata armour and so on. Typical for the 2nd. century AD, but all too typical for far too many documentaries and movies!

But of course, armour and clothing changed, and (for instance) the long-sleeved tunic and trousers came into fashion from the 3rd. c. onwards. Partly I believe through an influx of Germanc soldier (and their families) into the army, partly because of Germanics being settled inside the Empire, partly because Germanic martial culture may have become popular and was fashionable.

Armour was of course as always influenced by other culture, a normal process that never stops. But of course the Romans had their influence on surrounding cultures too.

Which is why you may associate Late Roman soldiers with a barbarian image, which is partly correct and partly incorrect.

[Vincula]

for equipment, Stephensons' are very good.

Is it Late Roman Infantry Equipemnt?
I saw other posts were they say this book is very bad! :?