Massive gathering in Germania in 2009

[Tarbicus]

As pointed out, not only is 2009 the 2000th aniversary of the Varrian Disaster, but also the 1940th anniversary of Cerialis' campaign against Civilis. Heck, it's also the 1940th anniversary of Cremona (two Cremonas, not just one)!

Not only do you get battered by Germans, you also get to batter each other.


So, here's the question:

If you didn't have to spend your own hard-earned cash, would you travel from wherever you are, and take the time, to take part in recreations of the above for a week in Germany?


Flights and coaches (economy), accomodation (tents), grub (oatmeal and bacon), entertainment (I'm sure some of you can do tricks), all covered.

This is to get an idea of potential numbers from this forum alone. It's not be held to, but just to get a feel for the potential of it.

And we all know which side our resident Batavians would be on for one of the fights at least.

Addendum:
Could there be a RAT conference as well? Also, it has a great opportunity for a trade fair.

[Tarbicus]

Well there are definitely five to make up the legion

Looks like the Batavians are in with a chance after all!

[Tib. Gabinius]

Hm perhaps also a question of the traffic and the possible places.

If it would take place in the area around Cologne (CCAA) and Bonn (Bonna) theres an airport (Köln-Bonn), trailways and a number of highways which help to arrive the area easily.
It would be also a historical place of the campaign against the bataver.

Also Trier (Augusta Treverorum) would be a good place, even for the later romans. Also there some highways leads to, and an airport (Frankfurt Hahn) is not too fare away, also it isnt "next".
Xanten (Ulpia Traiana, not ! Vetera) and Kalkriese also would be nice for somehwat like that event, but i m think both are not that good to come to.
But the background of Xanten would be real great...

That just for a little organisation view

[Tarbicus]

Thanks Tobias. I need to look at some maps, Germany's a big place. I've only passed through it on my way to Poland, but what I did see was beautiful countryside. Seems a great place to do something like this.

I also noticed another anniversary for 2009: 2200 years since the Battle of Thermopylae between Rome and the Seleucids. The Greeks could have a go at the Romans! May be a chance to test Roman tactics against a phalanx and try and figure out how exactly they got through?

[Neuraleanus]

Not have to pay for my travel? Not have to worry about getting my kit to Germainia and back? If it was that easy. Then again, I've always had the fantasy of a bunch of us arriving at the airport in roman kit, marching onto and off off a plane at the sound of the cornicean. Homeland Security will surely love that.

[Tarbicus]

Not have to pay for my travel? Not have to worry about getting my kit to Germainia and back? If it was that easy. Then again, I've always had the fantasy of a bunch of us arriving at the airport in roman kit, marching onto and off off a plane at the sound of the cornicean. Homeland Security will surely love that.

We could have prizes for anyone who manages to do it, with the metal detectors being the exception :wink:

[Ramesses II]

I also noticed another anniversary for 2009: 2200 years since the Battle of Thermopylae between Rome and the Seleucids. The Greeks could have a go at the Romans! May be a chance to test Roman tactics against a phalanx and try and figure out how exactly they got through?

Well if there are enough volunteers to come over, there is the possibility to show much to the audience: Rome versus the Greeks (Seleucids), Rome versus the German tribes (9AD) and later Romans with some Franks or Merovingers or something like that ... I believe there are quite some re-enactors in Germany, Poland, and a couple others in Central-Europe who re-enact the time around the fall of the Roman Empire.

[Robert Vermaat]

OK, are we now looking at a 9 AD event or some gigantic Roman Period event?
I mean, Xanten as well as Kalkriese are due to hold their bi-annual events in 2009, as well as Trier each year, so there would be some competition..

[Tib. Gabinius]

Hm, thats right Robert, but perhaps its possible to connect one of these events.
Xanten (Ulpia Traiana) would be the best background we can have and it has also enough space and room to get more than just a few groups.

In fact, theres no event taking part in Germany that would be compareable to a real big festival with more than 200 roman soldiers, if we would get them really (i m still somewhat sceptic about that )

If you ask me, i m for a multi period event with the try to show the evolution of roman army on place and in a shedule of "shows".

In Trier, the best and biggest german roman groups, the "Bitburger" Legio XXII Primigenia and the "Römerkohorte Opladen" dont take part anymore as far as i know.
Kalkriese wouldnt have the room to expand more than they did last year.

And if we dont do it right close to Kalkriese and Xanten, i dont fear that they would feel attacked But thats just my opinion.


If there is the want of a "one period" event, i guess the number of reenactors wouldnt be that big and it could be integrated into Kalkriese or Xanten.
The only missed possibility is a big late roman event on german ground...

[Robert Vermaat]

My gut feeling says you should concentrate on Kalkriese, although I heard that money-wise that organiser is a real nightmare. You could set up your own event but that will definitely need to be at a later date than the other events. I think, even so, Xanten and Kalkriese would draw several groups away from that 'big' event you're planning.

[Tib. Gabinius]

As far as i can see we dont plane anything
Like i said in the other thread before, i dont believe its possible to make it
Before planing where exactly and the date you ll need to know how to finance it, and there i calculate with more than 40- 50 0000 € just for the groups... and this is an optimistic view.
Than, of course, you need the groups, and the engagment on this poll dont look to fare right now.
And after this, if it survives so far, a planing stuff had to be build, the contacts have to be made, the travling ...etc.
And right at this point its also a question of the exact place and date.

So lets see, like i said before, if the money is organized and the groups are willingly to come i m a volenteer, but, also like i said, i m sceptic.

[Tarbicus]

I think, even so, Xanten and Kalkriese would draw several groups away from that 'big' event you're planning.

Are all of these groups committed to Kalkriese 2009 already? What month is it held (go on, say Septmber)?

Are they having a big march? Is there an organiser with exclusive rights? Does anyone know these things already before I go off checking them out?

Before planing where exactly and the date you ll need to know how to finance it, and there i calculate with more than 40- 50 0000 € just for the groups... and this is an optimistic view.

Is that half a million (5 zeroes)? Or did you mean 40 - 50 000?

The bigger the event the more chance of getting big sponsorship money. Corporate sponsors are interested in big tax claims and rebates. And the bigger the event the more attention from the EU it should get.

And after this, if it survives so far, a planing stuff had to be build, the contacts have to be made, the travling ...etc.

There are three and a half years to do all that, it's not in a couple of months :wink:

And right at this point its also a question of the exact place and date.

September 2009, Teutoberger Wald, Germany. Consider this, if it's around the same time as the other event, the groups already there may be persuaded for a few extra days...

also like i said, i m sceptic.

Fair enough, but the glass is half full or half empty. Only 14 people have voted in the poll, but of those 14, 78% say they would at least seriously consider it, and of all the voters half have said they would definitely come. Not one has said it's pointless so far.
:wink:

[Tib. Gabinius]

Kalkriese normally is in May, Pfingsten (Whitsuntide?), last year around the 15th.

Whilst Xanten is around mid of June (last time 16.-18.06) or beginning July.
Trier take part in August, this year from 11.-13.08.

In September mostly Aalen do their roman event, also quite famous.

And yeah, i ment thousands, on zero to much in my calculation.

Although i m not so optimistic like you, i m willingly to get a surprise

[Tarbicus]

Cool

And yeah, i ment thousands, on zero to much in my calculation.

I think it's not enough, and a more likely figure is 200 000 Euros. Seriously. There's insurance, food, medical and fire safety needs, yadda yadda yadda. No doubt people actually own the land (hopefully) hundreds of hobnailed caligae would marching across, and the list goes on.
But, TV rights could be sold as part of the sponsorship deal......

[Iosephus]

Well the German Government has some project ideas fot the anniversary:

http://www.lwl.org/2000jahrevarusschlacht

Tobias, maybe you could try to contact the Organizers and ask their oppinion about the presence of some hundreds roman legionaires...