Music of Ancient Rome and Greece

[Ebusitanus]

Ugh, what a letdown to read this thread...I was so proud of my "Roman" music collection by those two Italian groups and now they are totally farb. So besides Susanna´s CD is there anything else worth to have in regards Rome?

[Medusa Gladiatrix]

I could suggest the CD Somnia Imperii by David Marshall and I recall that Susanna had told Tobias and he passed this info on to me that this is quite good. But Susanna could say so herself, would you please :lol:

But anyhow, for now at least a link to their website:

http://www.ancestral.co.uk/romanmusic.htm

And next to Musica Romana it's my favorite.

[Susanna]

Well, duh...

Ok, David recognized the songs composed by Mesomedes, even they are spoken on his CD. Also he has the Seikilos Song on...in a very good version.

The CD lacks of research in names of the instruments, he just made a few mistakes most people do in that theme. Also he made the typical "double-flute-mistake", but less than others.

I cannot agree with his reconstruction of an ancient bagpipe, cause they had no drones in that time as far as we know.

What I like is that he was (he sadly died cause of cancer two years ago) a crack of a musician, really every songs sounds different. He was a very good player on reed-instruments. Nothing is done with to much studio-change in the sound.
It is not composed directly based on ancient tonality and rhymes...but...
It is very creative and great to listen to...its very folkloristic.
A lot of people play the music in a very classical way...I think that lacks of life and religion.

[Ebusitanus]

So Susanna, is there anything out there you would recomend in regards of "Roman" music besides your own productions?

[Sergey Lenkov]

Hello, Ebusitanus!
IMHO Susanna - she is a very correct lady and as a performer she couldn`t recommend or not to recommend you to listen to one or another CD - if you read this thread more careful - she only comments records - not recommends them. To buy it or not, hear it or not - it depends on you.
In this thread you have links to, well, not all, but nearly all available records of Ancient World music - follow the links, compare... As you understands it is mainly Ancient Greek music.

[Susanna]

Thank you, Sergey... :wink:

I did not recommand it...if you read, I recommand a lot:

- De Orseographia (Sergejs favorite)
- David Marshall
- Atrium Musicae
- Anne Belis (very classical)
- Daemonia Nymphae
- the sound examples of Dr. S.Hagel
- Mythos and Magie (a CD with Lure-Music) for example besides antiquity
- Droemte min an droem (Viking Music)
- Seeberger, Klangwelten der Altsteinzeit
- Chants de l´église milanaise (for Byzantine Christian music)

I have a lot more CDs...

I only judge scientifically and then musically, and from a musically point of view I said for example that I think the people of Ludi Scaenici are very goos musicians, also I really like some songs of Synaulia.

The problem is that most of people just take along the same mistake which was made ones on and on...cause they do not research the stuff themselves, they just copy texts from others.

Even we made mistakes on our CDs...goes paralell with my research, so the more I know the more I also find new stuff that sooner or later replaces our point of view and work.



I forgot some books:
* S. Hagel / Ch. Harrauer (Hrsg.): Ancient Greek Music in Performance, Wien 2005.
* J. G. Landels: Music in Ancient Greece and Rome, London und New York, 1999.
* M. L. West: Ancient Greek Music, Oxford 1992.
* G. Wille: Musica Romana – die Bedeutung der Musik im Leben der Römer, Amsterdam 1967.

The first one comes along with a live-CD of several performers,
but only together with the book. :!:

[Ebusitanus]

Yes, I did notice the recomendations above throughout the thread..but my interest is not Greek, Byzantine or Viking music but rather roman one. I already own David Marshall´s which you also found at fault. So basically is there anything out there besides your work (and Marshall´s) which would be "good enough"?


Btw...I just ordered your available CD. Hope you will give some sort of anouncement when your "Life" CD comes out or the first one gets reprinted :wink:

[Susanna]

Thank you... :lol:

Well, as for example most of the Greek musical pieces date into Roman time...you should order De Orseographia and Atrium Musicae definetly as well.

You cannot saperate it directly...as Mesomedes for example worked on Hadrian´s Court!
So its the same with nowadays modern charts...I could not recreate the "German Charts of Music" in 200 years without the English Songs.
:wink:

And...in fact...I do not know more Roman CDs beside Marshall, Omnia, Synaulia, Ludi Scaenici and us...I only know a thinnie from Spain but I never ordered the CD cause they simple play modern trumpets...and there have been tapes made by G.Lawson in the 80ths, but I think you cannot buy them anymore.
I got them ones in exchange for our CDs... :roll:

And "good enough" for what?

[Sergey Lenkov]

By the way, for perfectionists...
I remember that in Fellinni`s movie "Satyricon" (second half of 1960s) Ancient music were also used in the soundtrack - as I remember in the scenes on the ship. It sounds rough and heavy. Anybody knows anything about this Fellinni`s perfomer?

In the end of 1990s French label Cryo Interactive released computer game (2 CD-roms) "Odyssey" - the quest set in Mycenian Greece. As always it was beautifully designed game but with low gameplay and stupid puzzles. There were used ambiental electronic music with the fragments and samples from Paniagua`s record (in official Russian edition of the game this using was uncredited).

[Susanna]

In Civilization 2 or 3 (computer game) you can also listen to...I guess I remember the 1.Delphi Paian.

In a very good version!

[Sergey Lenkov]

Well, Susanna I`d like to ask you some questions.
What do you mean by this? Explain your view more clearly, please. You are perfomer, not we are, so I think this aspect could be interesting for the vistors of our thread... :o

A lot of people play the music in a very classical way...I think that lacks of life and religion.

As to book edited by S. Hagel / Ch. Harrauer (Hrsg.): Ancient Greek Music in Performance, Wien 2005 -
which music is presented on CD with this book?
This is the link to the book: http://verlag.oeaw.ac.at/index.phtml?act=ps&aref=2371

[Iulia Cassia Vegetia]

I think that what she means is that a lot of people play music that is very empty-they play according to a set format, but there is no spiritual meaning behind it, which perhaps has been lost, so that the music, although it sounds nice, is thus very mechanical.

[Sergey Lenkov]

Salve, Iulia, I`m appreciating your artwork and your opinion -
for me is interesting to compare my impressions from the record by Musica Romana with what the performer herself tryed to tell listener through the music...

[Susanna]

Hi Sergej and Iulia,

Iulia hits the point basically.

For me some CDs (extremly Melpomen, A.Belis and Aroyo) sound too perfect, steril and played from a studied classical point of view.

I guess it is influenced by the view of the 19th cent. of "New Humanistic Age" where people still though all ancient statues have been white and all Greeks where sitting and talking about mathematics and philosophy while playing lyre and aulos...
so the music becomes very reduced, slowly and sometimes I had the impressions that nobody of the musicians wants "to lean out of the window".
Disturbing for me is also the opera stil of singing for example.

I hope I explained it right...
I think therefore stuff like D.Marshall and some songs of Synaulia sound much more lively, natural and improvising with real good musical playing.

[Sergey Lenkov]

Thank you, Susanna, for the answer. (Though you don`t explaine your view of religious element in the music, I think that if we are religious or not - now I have a wish to pray to stop the war in the Near East).

Thank your for the mentioning Ensemble De Organographa. They recorded more than 30 authentic pieces of Antique world music - so they gave to the listener a wider view of this material than other available records (Let`s hope that Musica Romana would record more new albums! ).
To be true I`m not against these polished records by Arroyo or "Melpomen" and I like them - even if they are not correct in their interpretation of the material - as a listeners we are in profit - because we have a kind of a new art form - and as Italian composers of Renaissance in attempt to re-create Ancient Greek theatrical plays invented opera - probably now we see the rising of a new art genre?
And what about the second part of my question - CD included with the book edited by S. Hagel - which music is presented there and who are performers?