Roman Cavalryman Height?

[TFLAVIUSAMBIORIX]

gallienus, that would definitely put him in the 7' and up range if it is accurate to height----I do feel it is, look at coins that show other emperors with standards and they are markedly shorter, so it is a good possibility he was a hug man

[Spurius]

Thank you all for the insight. Thus far I am portraying a legionary soldier, but in time I imagine I will acquire the extra items to pose as an auxiliary.

I feel a lot shorter thanks to Andrew's comments about Maximinus I!

[TFLAVIUSAMBIORIX]

yes, I think maximus must have been at least in the 7.5' range judging from accounts, and coins I have showing him with, well, anything.

remember, there would have been a few grotesquely tall people in any age. at 6'3" you would have been a tall person, as you are now, but not as tall as a few guys. I think there was a 7' bronze age era skeleton found, in general people are not really all that much taller on the average than they were than, the italians are still much shorter than germans etc.

I would say 6'3" would be very large for an italian though, and agree with you that an auxiliary impression is probably closer for the early empire.

[ambrosius]

If so I would assume they would be smaller than legionaries because cavalrymen tend to be smaller.

...not to mention the fact that Roman cavalry horses were the size of ponies, and would have difficulty carrying a big man.

I think maybe the minimum height requirement for Roman cavalry
came from the fact that they had no stirrups. Thus they needed to
be able to vault onto their saddles, just by holding onto the saddle-
horns. Obviously, this is easier if you are taller to begin with. They
were trained to be able to mount with armour and a shield, which is
important if you fell off on the battlefield. The modern vaulting-horse
used by gymnasts is thought to originate from the Roman cavalry. 8)

Ambrosius

[richsc]

Spurius, are you participating with any group? I'll pass along our
Legio XX Website here in the DC area.

[Spurius]

Spurius, are you participating with any group? I'll pass along our
Legio XX Website here in the DC area.

Richard,
Many thanks for passing along info!
I am joining LEG VI in SC but perhaps I can make a few more northern events, as I am about 4.5 hours from DC?

[Goodies]

Maybe we can see his height from the coinage if they are accurate.

.... look at coins that show other emperors with standards and they are markedly shorter, so it is a good possibility he was a hug man

.... at least in the 7.5' range judging from accounts, and coins I have showing him with, well, anything.

Interesting "queeste" for the height of a soldier.. As far as coins are concerned..

Unfortunately, we are not able to estimate the actual height of any actor on the reverse of a roman coin: the image depicted was based on propaganda rather than actual realism. Refer to coins of the "Emperor spearing fallen horseman" and the like. Prisoners were depicted very small, the emperor stood large..



When we see Valerian sitting on a goat, the emperor (boy, caesar) is surprisingly small considering the portrait on the obverse:



Interestingly, the contemporary forgeries (or "Barbaric Imitations" as we prefer to name these) often show the opposite. The prisoner, or the weapon, is sometimes even larger than the emperor. Unfortunately, it is still unclear, whether that was the result of (lack of) craftsmanship or propaganda on the other side..

Look at this Postumus Sestertius for an example how Celators (Romans that made coins) sometimes depict proportions based on the room left for cutting the die. The part with the emperor on horseback is smaller than the part with the standing soldiers. Effectively showing the emperor as juvenile when compared to the soldiers.

In short: in my view, politics, craftsmanship and composition determine the proportions of actors on Roman coins, rather than true world size and ratios..

:wink:
Lex

[Lepidina]

...not to mention the fact that Roman cavalry horses were the size of ponies, and would have difficulty carrying a big man.

Not necessarily so. Icelandics are direct decendants from the Viking horses and despite being pony sized, they can carry a full-grown man with ease. Even the "heavy cavalry" of the middle-ages with fully armored knights weren't any taller than about 16hh. Roman horses were probably about 4'8 at the shoulder which isn't tiny.

The other factor is that good riders will be easier to carry and be less stress on a horse than a smaller person who isn't a rider. Good riders aren't deadweight. They will move with the horse and help balance it so they can rider smaller horses than you would put a non-rider on.

As for vaulting, that's not really a factor of size but of ability. I know people that aren't that much taller than me (5'3") who can jump on a 17hh horse bareback. I would never have made it in the Roman cav as I can't vault onto a pony without using a mounting block.

[claudia crisis]

You cannot assume that because average height was smaller in Napoleanoc period that the same would apply to Roman period.
In Roman period, as now, people were well fed, health care was good, life expectancy was long - eg grave of G Cassius Secundus in Chester who was 80 yrs and another member of II Augusta who reached 100.
Many people as now would achieve full height before the age of 20.

In the pre & early industrial period there was a lot of poverty, health care was low as was life expectancy. In the rural areas this was worse. The healthy moved to the towns for the newly developing industrial areas, leaving the weaker & poorer specimens in the villages, & the Enclosure Acts allowed the landowners to dispossess even more. People were not achieving full height until 27 yrs and that was often stunted through poor nutrition. This is well documented in the many years (over 30 yrs) of excavations by John Hurst & Maurice Beresford, at Wharram Percy in Yorkshire, England.

Hilary Travis (ex Wharram Digger of many years ago)

[claudia crisis]

Have you also considered on these depictions that there was an artistic convention to display the more important people as larger than those less important. This can be seen on many sculptures and wall paintings with servants much smaller than their masters. Doesnt make them giants.

Very tall people have always been known though as a form of illness.
The "Child of Hale" (near Liverpool) was over 8 foot tall and the body found in Hathersage, Derbyshire of "Little John"/John Little (yes he did exist) was supposedly of a man of "giant" proportions, although the reported length of his leg bones would have made him an unfeasible height of around 14 foot!

Hilary

[claudia crisis]

In Acts of Maximilianus I, 1-5 (Musurillo, 1972, 17) in AD 295, on subject of Maximilianus, son of Fabius Victor, Dion proconsul asked “Let him be measuredâ€