Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Roman Horsehair Crests
#1
Okay, so here is a question that has popped into my mind quite often lately and I can't seem to find an answer. What was the color of the crests worn atop Roman helmets? Usually they are depicted as being red, however I recently read that most were actually yellow. Obviously some are portrayed as black also. Does anyone know if they were one specific color, or a variety? Did a different color denote rank or seniority in any way? Any websites, book references, or comments would be great!

Thanks!
Gaius Tertius Severus "Terti" / Trey Starnes

"ESSE QUAM VIDERE"
Reply
#2
A crest was found at Vindolanda, that is now very black (dyed from the peat) but may originally have been brown.
Arrian describes cavalry sports crests as yellow "not for any practical purpose but to make a fine show". There are also mosaic depictions of crests in red and white. So you pays your money, and takes your choice!

Cheers

Caballo
[Image: wip2_r1_c1-1-1.jpg] [Image: Comitatuslogo3.jpg]


aka Paul B, moderator
http://www.romanarmy.net/auxilia.htm
Moderation in all things
Reply
#3
Indications of rank are much theorised over. Some things we know. Other things are hopeful assumptions.
We know that centuriones in Polybios's time could be distinguished by tinned or silvered helmets. We do not know if that still applied a century and a half later, by which time we know that a centurio could be distinguished by a transverse crest, greaves and vitis. As far as I know we do not know if these elements applied in the first century BC or not. Neither do we know if they persisted into the second century AD.
We also know that in the first century AD an optio could be distinguished by his knob ended staff and ring. What we do not know is whether or not there were other disinguishing features such as particular coloured cloaks, tunics or crests. It is tempting to try and assign particular colours to particular ranks but at the and of the day, any colour choice is going to be an assumption rather than something based on evidence. It is true that there are a number of contemporary coloured representations of Roman soldiers, but these are shown in tunics of a variety of colours and shades and there is little to indicate any sort of rank-colour correllation. The only literary references indicating special colours for particular ranks, as far as I know, are a reference to a military parade before the emperor Vitellius where the tribunes and senior centuriones were dressed in white (no mention of the other centuriones or soldiers wearing any particular colour) and an application to the emperor Septimius Severus over a century later when a group of officers requested the right to wear white tunics. Again there is nothing in that reference to indicate other ranks being concerned about colours. Other than that, I am not aware of any references to colour and rank. Therefore, any matching of crest colour to rank (as many re-enactment groups, my own included, do) is purely supposition.

I hope this helps in some way.


Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers.  :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
Reply
#4
Quote:A crest was found at Vindolanda, that is now very black (dyed from the peat) but may originally have been brown.

This would be the one I assume, made of mosshair (grass)?
[Image: helmet.jpg]
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
Reply
#5
"a centurio could be distinguished by a transverse crest, greaves and vitis. As far as I know we do not know if these elements applied in the first century BC or not. Neither do we know if they persisted into the second century AD. "

As regards greaves, visibly worn by legionaries on the Adamklissi metopes, it looks like this id for a centurion had fallen away by the Dacian wars? Also, as a practical way of identifying an officer, it strikes me that a transverse crest would be much more effective than ducking down to look for shin protectors (probably not advised if faced by a Dacian falxman Sad ).

Cheers

Caballo
[Image: wip2_r1_c1-1-1.jpg] [Image: Comitatuslogo3.jpg]


aka Paul B, moderator
http://www.romanarmy.net/auxilia.htm
Moderation in all things
Reply
#6
Thanks for all of the information guys. So from what I have gathered from the posts, crests on the helmets could be a variety of colors, with no particular specialty or function?
Gaius Tertius Severus "Terti" / Trey Starnes

"ESSE QUAM VIDERE"
Reply
#7
"a variety of colours, with no particular specialty or function?"

Well, as I said, we simply don't know.

"As regards greaves, visibly worn by legionaries on the Adamklissi metopes, it looks like this id for a centurion had fallen away by the Dacian wars? Also, as a practical way of identifying an officer, it strikes me that a transverse crest would be much more effective than ducking down to look for shin protectors (probably not advised if faced by a Dacian falxman)"

The greaves worn by the infantry on the Adamklissi metopes appear to be 'short', ending below the knee, as is (so I understand) the greave found in Chichester harbour. This findspot, incidentally, indicates a strong probability of it having been deposited in the mid first century AD. The greaves shown on centuriones' stelae are 'long', coming up to cover the knees. Therefore the presence of one does not necessarily negate the presence of the other. Again (as far as I know), we just don't know. The retention of the transverse crest is certainly an attractive idea. It's just that again, we are lacking the evidence to say it for certain.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers.  :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Crests and Roman Soldiers comicus 41 11,915 08-27-2017, 04:35 PM
Last Post: angus1235
  Roman Helmet Crests ibreh 3 2,880 08-31-2009, 07:43 AM
Last Post: ibreh
  Late Roman helmet crests TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS 25 5,657 10-20-2006, 11:20 AM
Last Post: Conal

Forum Jump: