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I'm not sure this is the palce to post this, but I need a bit of help. I know next to nothing about Chinese military traditions, but I need to know the education level of Chinese soldiers and Officers. I am specifically interested in the Ming dynasty, but any information on earlier periods would be welcome. I have read that the "best" people avoided military service in China under this period.
Specifically: Were officers required to read and write? Would they be considered intellectuals and of a higher social class? What level of education for the common soldier?
Paul M. Bardunias
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Quote: I'm not sure this is the palce to post this, but I need a bit of help. [..]I am specifically interested in the Ming dynasty, but any information on earlier periods would be welcome. I have read that the "best" people avoided military service in China under this period.
Ming dynasty: 1368-1644. Hmmm.. I'd say that would stretch the subject of this forum a bit, so I moved your query to OT.
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In some periods there were written and practical exams for officers, but the army tended to be less prestigious than the civil service. But I can't remember the details, and my knowledge comes mainly from textbooks, so take it with a grain of salt.
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Thanks, since I know so little about this, even salty knowledge is welcome 
Paul M. Bardunias
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Neo-Confucianism, the dominating political ideology and moral philosophy since the 12th century, loathed war and violent solutions, so the prestige of the Ming military would undoubtedly have suffered from this, although the Ming were among the most aggressive Chinese indigenous dynasties, equally certain an aftereffect of the shock of the Mongol conquests.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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A book that might help is, Chinese Ways In Warfare, edited by Frank A Kierman and John K Fairbank, c1974, ISBN:674-12575-4.
I do not know if this will have the answers you are looking for though it does have a chapter on Ming warfare (The Poyang Campaign, 1363: Inland Naval Warfare in the Founding of the Ming Dynasty)
As mentioned by others, war and military service, while given some "lip service" were not, generally speaking, highly regarded pursuits. ('One does not turn good iron into weapons just as one does not turn good men into soldiers.' I may not have that quote exactly right, I am recalling it from a 1978 graduate course in Chinese Philosophy ...) You might want to check out The Salt And Iron Debates, which were, ostensibly about economic policies, but in reality delved into the philosophical means and purpose of government, including war. It is a bit off your main quest, but might give you a good foundation for the Chinese views on this matter and help to explain the position occupied by the military in ancient China.
Good luck.
:wink:
Narukami
David Reinke
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Quote:('One does not turn good iron into weapons just as one does not turn good men into soldiers.)
Thanks, Close if its the same one I came across: "One does not turn good iron into a nail, nor good men into soldiers"
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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I was under the impression that literacy was much more common in the Asian cultures. The size of China alone contributed to a massive court of officials. I would think that written messages were fairly common between generals at least. There are many Martial Arts manuals dating back quite a long time and that is something you could go off of. A good person to get into contact with is a defected Shaolin monk named "Shi Yan Ming" he lives in New York, (Manhattan I think). He is a witer for a couple of martial arts magazines.
Craig Bellofatto
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Right you are PM -- that is the quote exactly remembered.
Thanks.
:oops:
Narukami
David Reinke
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Less poetic but true even so.
How about turning soldiers into good men. Wouldn't that be awesome!!! 
Craig Bellofatto
Going to college for Massage Therapy. So reading alot of Latin Terminology
It is like a finger pointing to the moon. DON\'T concentrate on the finger or you miss all the heavenly glory before you!-Bruce Lee
Train easy; the fight is hard. Train hard; the fight is easy.- Thai Proverb
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Quite so.
Reminds me of a quote attributed to H.G. Wells in his book, The Island Of Dr. Moreau, though I have been unable to verify it so I now think that perhaps it was said by someone else writing about Moreau.
"Why do we revile Dr. Moreau for turning animals into men, when we routinely praise politicians and generals for turning men into animals?"
Why indeed...
:|
Narukami
David Reinke
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Yeah! I read that too but it sure has been awhile>
Craig Bellofatto
Going to college for Massage Therapy. So reading alot of Latin Terminology
It is like a finger pointing to the moon. DON\'T concentrate on the finger or you miss all the heavenly glory before you!-Bruce Lee
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[url:2c8ks23y]http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ming_Dynasty[/url] I hope this can help. I have perused it a little and it seems well enough for starters.
Craig Bellofatto
Going to college for Massage Therapy. So reading alot of Latin Terminology
It is like a finger pointing to the moon. DON\'T concentrate on the finger or you miss all the heavenly glory before you!-Bruce Lee
Train easy; the fight is hard. Train hard; the fight is easy.- Thai Proverb
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i found this forum:
[url:2rnnnlni]http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/[/url]
maybe they can help?
gr,
Jeroen Pelgrom
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