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Pre-Persian Panoply Pursuit
#1
Ok...

Taking off from the Linothorax thread.

So last month I got the last Albion black Corinthian crest, so now I need a helmet. This morning I ordered a Corinthian from them and a red and white crest, just for grins. I want to do a pre-Persian Wars impression. As was mentioned in the linothorax thread, The Deepeeka Argos may be a bit large and a bit boxy. The pics posted of the Manning Argos look like the way to go. I have Connolly noting an Argos type c. 525 found at Olympia. Also according to Connolly's time line the Albion "early Corinthian" style starts at about the same time. If This is dated, or you have more, enlighten.

Now I know you got to have an Aspis. Everyone has to have an aspis. Thats just the way it is. And I checked out Matthews web page on construction and I am buying The wood Sunday. But. How about the oval Boeotian shield? Can anyone supply a geographical and temporal distribution of these? I fact, any information on pre-Persian would be appreciated. I know Persian and Peloponesian war stuff is In, as is Alexander stuff. But people had fun things to do before Marathon.

I am not as knowledgeable about Greek equipment as I am Roman. Please post way. So much armour, so little time.

Also, for those of you who have offspring that you want to try to get off the skateboard and out of the juvenile justice system, or for our female Athenas: Albion has one small sized Corinthian for $90 in the Moat sale.

Gaius Gecius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)
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#2
Beotian shield is called because it appears on the coinage of the Beotian League. Thebans were the top dogs there but other big cities were Orchomenos Platea Aliartos Thespiae, Tanagra and Levadea (modern provincial capital today)
Beotian shield is an evolution of the Dipylon shield. In art appears to be held with the scalops horizontaly and vertiacally so pick your preference.
It seems to have been in use up to the time of Persian wars especially among the less developed and fashion minded city states.
Later it was painted on the "argolic hoplon" shields as a sign of allegiance to the Beotian league. The perimetry of the drawn shiled was encasing the city emblem (Eg. beotian shiedd design encasing the trident of Onchistos)
Its use stops after the Persian wars.
If you decide of period and locality let me know and I will tell you about shield devices.
Kind regards
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#3
Quote:Ok...


Now I know you got to have an Aspis. Everyone has to have an aspis. Thats just the way it is. And I checked out Matthews web page on construction and I am buying The wood Sunday.

Gaius Gecius Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)

Way to go, Ralph! Make a Boeotian shield in the same manner as Matt's Aspis.
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#4
Quote: Thebans were the top dogs there but other big cities were Orchomenos Platea Aliartos Thespiae, Tanagra and Levadea (modern provincial capital today)
... The perimetry of the drawn shiled was encasing the city emblem (Eg. beotian shiedd design encasing the trident of Onchistos)
Its use stops after the Persian wars.
If you decide of period and locality let me know and I will tell you about shield devices.

Thanks,

You live there, and know these places better than I. Help me narrow this down. The cities other than Thebes sound cool. ( Sorry, I know its not PC, but I just can"t deal with the Sacred Band lifestyle). I'm doing about 550 to 500. Who was cool then and what devices may be had for the above mentioned? Suppose I did one of these localities and sent my pic to the local paper. Or would they tolerate an American barbarian copying their tradition. It is then tempting to want to vist. Except I would have to be under heavy sedation for the flights.

I checked out the Chigi vase. lots of nice designs.

Ralph Izard
who now needs a Greek name also, I guess
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#5
Take a deep breath and relax.
Most of the cities of the renown are unfortunately either ruins or modern villages and towns.
Yes an number of the rich brats composing the Sacred Band were PC and tolerated because they were useful in battle and Rich!
More fuss is done by the PC modern scholars than the true situation of the times had it! They did not exist at the time.
As for the modern people they would think that there just another "American nutter" :lol: Reenacting is a very late thing in Greece.
550 to 500 late archaic early classical. Good time! (all pottery has dark figures- "black faced".)
Chigi base is the first appearance of Laconian emblems not Beotian.
All Beotian "Spartoi" families who trace linage from bronze age (NOT Spartans!! Spartos = means indigenous) would carry a white faced shield with a red snake. One of the members of the hoplites club in the UK has done an excellent reconstruction. Swastix like solar symbols were also popular. Other than that choose your pick:
Thebes - Hercules club
Platea - three white moons
Orxomenos - Grain
Onghistos - Poseidon's trident
Thespiae - crescent moon or dog head with red eyes
Haliartos - the H as a completely closed sq are
Chaeronea - the amphora

If you were crusading to punish the sacrilegious Kirrans who offended the Oracle of Delphi you could carry the eye of Zeus Pantepoptes (the All seeing) Hope I helped.
kind regards
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#6
Aren't those greaves a bit small in relation to the shield? Confusedhock:
[size=75:wtt9v943]Susanne Arvidsson

I have not spent months gathering Hoplites from the four corners of the earth just to let
some Swedish pancake in a purloined panoply lop their lower limbs off!
- Paul Allen, Thespian
[/size]

[Image: partofE448.jpg]
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#7
I note the posts on the High Crest thread, and think Paul and I are perhaps converging on doing the same kind of an impresion with the Thespian Melanchitonoi. Unless this is considered shameless imitation, and is considered a sign of poor upbringing. In any event, I am getting the wood this afternoon for a Boetian shield. Common sense tells me to make an aspis first, but... If I take Mat Amt's guide and streach the center points of the circle by about six or seven inches and making it an oval, it should work.

Susanne... don't know anything about your head size but you may want to check out the Corinthian in the Albinion Moat sale. It might be a good fit for an adult female. Fit, in a Corinthinan I believe, is a major issue. Its $90, regular price $375.


Ralph Izard
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#8
Bear in mind that, facing the Hoplite, those items of armour would be all you'd see, because the shield should cover everything the helmet and greaves missed. Think of the proportions from that point of view. The greaves may be a little small, but may not be originally from the same panoply.

- I've just measured them, :oops: and the diameter of the shield is 2.2 x the height of the greave, where it should be (in my reckoning), nearer 1.8, so they are a bit small. Hawkeye Susanne!
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#9
Quote:Susanne... don't know anything about your head size but you may want to check out the Corinthian in the Albinion Moat sale. It might be a good fit for an adult female. Fit, in a Corinthinan I believe, is a major issue. Its $90, regular price $375.

May I have a link to the site? Thanks! 90 dollars... that would make 700 Swedish crowns; not bad at all. :twisted:

A wonderful addition to my ancient themed office / bedroom, it may well deserve a spot in my newly purchased glass showcase given that it is able to bear the weight of the helmet. Smile Groaning shelves are a bad thing.

Speaking of Corinthians, I found one dated to 560 BCE at our local museum (Medelhavsmuseet); I will try to talk the staff into taking it out for me to photograph and put into a new thread here. Smile


Quote:- I've just measured them, Embarassed and the diameter of the shield is 2.2 x the height of the greave, where it should be (in my reckoning), nearer 1.8, so they are a bit small. Hawkeye Susanne!

:lol:
[size=75:wtt9v943]Susanne Arvidsson

I have not spent months gathering Hoplites from the four corners of the earth just to let
some Swedish pancake in a purloined panoply lop their lower limbs off!
- Paul Allen, Thespian
[/size]

[Image: partofE448.jpg]
Reply
#10
Susanne

Here is the link: http://www.albion-swords.com/moat.htm

Albion is trying to expand into the European market and I'm sure they are well up to do international orders and will do whatever it takes to get you set up

Ralph Izard
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#11
Quote:I note the posts on the High Crest thread, and think Paul and I are perhaps converging on doing the same kind of an impresion with the Thespian Melanchitonoi. Unless this is considered shameless imitation, and is considered a sign of poor upbringing. In any event, I am getting the wood this afternoon for a Boetian shield. Common sense tells me to make an aspis first, but... If I take Mat Amt's guide and streach the center points of the circle by about six or seven inches and making it an oval, it should work.

Susanne... don't know anything about your head size but you may want to check out the Corinthian in the Albinion Moat sale. It might be a good fit for an adult female. Fit, in a Corinthinan I believe, is a major issue. Its $90, regular price $375.


Ralph Izard

I have no objection to your doing a Black Tunic outfit - if we ever meet, it's likely to be my fault, after all! Besides, the world needs more Thespians and I'd be proud to have you as a brother-in-arms.

(Why be alert when you can be a Thespian?)

Given what Stefanos has said elsewhere, it's probably a good thing if we don't ALL do it, but a couple of us on any battlefield would probably make a nice change from all those white jobs!

I'm interested in that helmet for use in my school shows, I've PM-ed Susanne about it.
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#12
Quote:Aren't those greaves a bit small in relation to the shield? Confusedhock:

Looks like it might be a composite photograph, so the items might be a little out of scale.

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#13
Quote:Thespian Pavlos I get your message please check!

Gioi :wink:

Done, Gioi! - And I've sent you one...
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#14
Quote:Given what Stefanos has said elsewhere, it's probably a good thing if we don't ALL do it, but a couple of us on any battlefield would probably make a nice change from all those white jobs!

Well If my fortunes imporve, I fancy to make black linothorax with a Kerberos (3-headed black dog with red eyes) on a shield design and a black chiton. Black chiton and black crest on helmet.
To those who think it is "gothic" I say that the oldest "dance macabre" is a golden cup in Palermo Museum with dancing skeletons-5th century A.D. :twisted:

Kind regards
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#15
Looks like black could be the new...er...black....
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