Leather Armor? (NO HOLDS BARRED!!)

[tlclark]

The armour was intended to stop attacks that found their way around the shield, not through.

Exactly my point Dan, have any of the tests you refer to taken that into consideration?

My thoughts are along these same lines as well. My gut tells me that the armor is a last resort should you mess up. I'm not sure that a well trained soldier with a spear and shield without armor wasn't as well protected as a raw recruit with the best armor.

If that's the standard, then leather, even flexible leather, would be fairly serviceable.

Thanks Graham

[tlclark]

I've never dismissed it. I have repeatedly agreed that leather/hide was used as armour in many time periods and in many cultures. I have also said that every extant example of leather armour uses leather that is not flexible.

Very true, I should be more careful not to speak in generalities, but just to be specific we are talking only about flexible Roman armor as indicated in the Bergama statue and a few other examples. Just to split-hairs further, I would qualify the armor in the bergama example as semi-rigid and not flexible. This is a half-full half-empty kind of thing, but it's important since flexible implies no rigidity or hardening, while the semi-rigid might imply some hardening.

Modern experimental data supports the case that flexible leather provides little protection against the most common weapons on a battlefield. I conclude from this that if flexible leather is evident either in an illustration or an extant piece of costume then it cannot have been intended as "armour" - i.e. expected to resist the most likely threat on the battlefield. I have no problem with Romans wearing flexible leather for a purpose other than what I would define as "armour".

Well that brings us back to the semantics of what "armor" is, which I see no need to re-hash. The image is clearly meant to represent a musculata, and I suspect it has serviceability, but even if it doesn't, it would still be armor, because it conjures up all the visual historical references to the concept of "armor". But hey, I'm an art historian, so you'd expect me to preference image over substance.

Well I think we've said it all and little more need be said.

I think that we aren't going to settle this problem short of our own version of the "Thunderdome"

Say it with me Dan!!

Two men enter!! One man leaves!!

Two men enter!! One man leaves!!

Cheers!

Travis

[tlclark]

And this is only something that occurred to me: One advantage of leather over metal armour would be agility.

There's also "visual" agility. A guy shows up in musculata and he immediately commands attention. Recognition of authority on the battlefield is also very important.

Travis

[Dan Howard]

Say it with me Dan!!

Two men enter!! One man leaves!!

Two men enter!! One man leaves!!

Heh. I'll kill you just before Jim. :wink:

[Marcus Germanicus Ferox]

Hey Jim

We,ve talked before on another thread re: leather armour - saw this - maybe it is the solution to the problem and will keep everyone happy :wink:

Steady Dan.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Roman-Lorica-Segm ... dZViewItem

Kind regards to all

Ferox

[Tarbicus]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Roman-Lorica-Segm ... dZViewItem

We have indeed mate. However, From the webpage this declaration gets my irony quote of the month:

Important Feature ! You will notice other Loricas being sold on ebay have very THIN and CHEAP leather straps that are designed to support the weight of the Loria's Torso. Frankly ! these are JUNK.

ROFL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Marcus Germanicus Ferox]

Nice one Jim

Just seen your post re the helmet..... looks ok... do you have the link to their main site? - Weren't they the ones that did quitea good low price gladius? Red plain scabbard, light wood scabbard. Von Sussen used to supply it but haven't had it for ages.

Over to you chap

Mark

p.s. sorry if wrong thread :roll:

[Dan Howard]

Love the title.
"Roman Lorica Segmentata Medieval Armor Gladiator SCA"
Except that he forgot to put "ninja" in there somewhere. It is black. What else would a Medieval Roman Ninja wear?

[Tarbicus]

It is black. What else would a Medieval Roman Ninja wear?

This, as an accessory
LEATHER ROMAN LEGIONNAIRES HELMET

Just seen your post re the helmet..... looks ok... do you have the link to their main site? - Weren't they the ones that did quitea good low price gladius? Red plain scabbard, light wood scabbard.

It is the same guy, Ferox: finditarmory.com/

Unfortunately, he only delivers to North America.

[Marcus Germanicus Ferox]

Hi Dan

"Atomic Tights" maybe, "Kung Fu caligae", Giesha gladius, the possibilities are endless!

Later Ferox

[Dan Howard]

I meant it as a rhetorical question. As in, "everyone knows that Medieval Roman Ninja wore this type of armour."

[tlclark]

Say it with me Dan!!

Two men enter!! One man leaves!!

Two men enter!! One man leaves!!

Heh. I'll kill you just before Jim. :wink:

Thanks for the wink! I've noticed you've updated your avatar too! Is that a dendra panoply?!

(Good grief, it looks like I'm heading for a bronze-age a** whooping. hock: )

Just for the record, I think I've mentioned many times on this board what an utter coward I am. Oh I have plenty of moral courage, but when it comes to physical courage I literally scream like a little girl. So when we meet on the field of honor, I will be in my tribune impression, and we will see how well my musculata performs

BEHIND 20 PRAETORIANS!

Thanks for the fun conversation!

Travis

[Dan Howard]

Yeah. It is the one that Andrew Walpole made a few years ago. I bought it last year. Had to sell every other scrap of armour I had to pay for it. It is an almost exact copy of the original. Total coincidence that it fits me. More info here. http://s8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Age_C ... wtopic=347

[tlclark]

Yeah. It is the one that Andrew Walpole made a few years ago. I bought it last year. Had to sell every other scrap of armour I had to pay for it. It is an almost exact copy of the original. Total coincidence that it fits me. More info here. http://s8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Age_C ... wtopic=347

And somehow nothing this good ever made it into 'Troy'.

The world is really unfair.

[Robert Vermaat]

It is black. What else would a Medieval Roman Ninja wear?

This, as an accessory
LEATHER ROMAN LEGIONNAIRES HELMET

How about the KING ARTHUR HELMET:


or the BLACK MAXIMUS HELMET? (is that a racial thing?) :twisted: