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Richomeres · 05-10-2002, 03:43 PM

Nicly put, Goffredo. But I think this is the core of the problem with democracy. Democracy is also there for the people who do not value it. Like it or not. 
 
Helge

05-10-2002, 04:13 PM

"There is not a truth existing which I fear, or would wish unknown to the whole world". 
Thomas Jefferson 
Nietzche was worshipped by the nazis. However it is still a highly recommended reading. 
Wagner was a big nazi icon too. That doesn't make him a bad composer. 
Jean Raspail, besides being a visionary, is also a royalist and a christian fundamentalist, two things I am definitely not. 
And as deciding whether this flow of immigrants/colonists is real or not, I think the european electorate has decided on that. And will do the more so in the near future. 
Again I invite you to vist Ede, in the Netherlands, or some suburbs I know around Paris, or any city of importance --and even lesser ones-- to witness yourself the reality of this "fiction" and judge whether Raspail/Pandora is right or wrong. 
Ask the Italians about the rust buckets crammed with "political refugees" that run aground on their coasts at a regular pace. One thousand "refugees" colonists at a time... 
It's not the question of "stopping" immigration as the politically correct would like you to think, ladies and gentlemen. 
It's the question of choosing the immigration we need and making sure that those who came in will adapt and be assimilated in a reasonable time. For their own good and for ours. 
Those that come to Europe and refuse to adapt, try to impose their own customs or religion and "demand" things in the name of "their community" will not be welcome any longer. Period. When in Rome, do as the Romans. 
As for compassion, I repeat: I gave at the office already. I pay taxes which include an appreciable proportion dedicated to public health care, housing for the poor, public education and integration programs and so on. And as far as foreign aid is concerned, Europe as a whole gave at the office already. 
I accept this, I pay more or less gladly and I had enough arguments about this one with republican friends in the US. 
It's not as theatrical as the St Martin routine, but we still split the cloak. And more than ever, actually. 
Ah.. Compassion... Yes, I feel very compassionate, and also very ashamed for the plight of the Jews in France, for instance. 
The jewish faith is the only one whose places of worship have to be protected by the police, because they run the risk of being blown up or set afire. It's not the nazis they're protected against. It's against muslim fanatics. 
I feel compassionate for those young jewish soccer players attacked with steel balls on a soccer field in my country to the shouts of "death to the Jews", by those same muslim fanatics. 
I felt compassionate, and very ashamed, and scared, when Gaby, a jewish colleague of mine I've known for twenty five years and whose parents fled nazi Germany, confessed to me that she and her husband "had made plans.. Just in case.." 
Honestly I'd never thought of hearing such a horror in my lifetime in my country. What could I answer to that? 
Who threatens them? Who sets fires to their synagogues? Who throws stones in jewish shops? Who forces them to "make plans, just in case"? 
The Waffen SS? They're gone. We beat those ones remember? 
"Incidents! Isolated incidents! Not politically significant! Not really serious! Keep cool! They're just troubled teenagers!" says the humanitarian, compassionate --but somewhat blind-- left, as opposed to the cold hearted, calculating right wing. 
Yeah, right... 
Hitler too began with "isolated, unsignificant" incidents and a small group of "troubled teenagers"... 
So much for the harmonious development of various communities you're so fond of.. 
And while all this harmony goes on, my jewish friends "make plans, just in case.." 
I don't think I can admit that. Someone else's gonna make plans and that won't be Gaby. 
And as far as Australia is concerned, I wouldn't dare interfering besides reminding you that open door policies on immigration leads inevitably to the de facto control of these policies by mafias of slave traders, themselves controlled by governments that are not as compassionate and democratic as ours. 
For instance, Saddam Hussein and the "democratic" turkish governement are pretty much in favor of western open door policies: "let's get rid of our kurdish opponents" they think, "the West is dumb enough to welcome them". 
The more people the non-democratic, tyrannical, corrupt "governments" of these countries send to the west, the less eager they are to undertake reforms that would allow those people to stay home. Something they'd gladly do. 
And while all this humantity and compassion goes so strong that tears come to my eyes, the West participates more or less willingly in ethnic cleansing and political represssion. 
On the other hand, given the size of Australia, and despite the fact that big chunks of that enormous land are not really hospitable, I don't think the arrival of a few hundred Kurds would have caused an upheaval. 
However you must be aware that they come from a predominantly rural, backwards area, where religion has not yet been laicized as it has been in the West. 
As a result they will have a very, very hard time understanding the western way of life and adapting to it. Australia is a very developed western country. That will inevitably cause trouble. It's not a prediction, it's experience. The cultural gap is far too wide to be able to be bridged in the usual two generations. Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=antoninuslucretius>Antoninus Lucretius</A> at: 5/11/02 12:56:49 pm

05-11-2002, 02:48 PM

Relax HelgE... 
 
T'was but a Freudian slip! Now I must move on as I have lots and lots to read and I see that there is some interesting discussion hear about the Australian government as well! 
 
Cheers 
Adam

05-31-2002, 12:14 AM

Hibernicus, might that be too late! Given what is now happening between India and Pakistan, and should this 50 year-old conventional war now erupt into full scale nuclear war, are any western nations in danger of the fallout? 
 
Adam 
www.choice.com.au/articles/a103199p1.htm

06-09-2002, 10:13 PM

Thought that this might be of interest to readers and participants in this thread 
 
See: homepages.msn.com/SpiritS...tomic.html 
 
 
Adam 
seven.bf.rmit.edu.au/clickwrap 
Are you aware of the spy that loves you? 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/uadam4me.showPublicProfile?language=EN>adam4me</A> at: 6/10/02 12:13:47 am

06-15-2002, 06:59 AM

How close do you live to one of the many nuclear waste transportation 
routes as they haul it to the desert of Nevada? 
www.mapscience.org/doe_eis_maps.php#maps 
 
How close is your home? 
www.mapscience.org/doe_eis_maps.php 
 
Some what unrelated but this is one of the few maps that really show the 
problem. 
www.mapscience.org/pdf/eis_j_CA.pdf

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