Caligae Construction

[aitor iriarte]

Do it without hesitation, Martin!
Carol is a very friendly (but busy) lady!
If you live not far from the Netherlands, she (and myself) will be at Meijel on March the 25th for a Conference on the Deurne find.
[url:3pviev03]http://www.medelo.nl/Verslag%20Avond%20Gouden%20Helm.htm[/url]

Aitor

[Pegasus]

Hi Does anybody have any caligae patterns for a size 6 , I have small feet you see and most patterns Ive seen are for a size 10 . Would be great if someone could help .



Pegasus .

[Matt Lukes]

Hi Pegasus (please put your real name in your signature line- it's a rule )

Probably the easiest thing you can do is take a pattern you've found and then just reduce it on a photocopier until it's the right size for your foot. You may have to adjust the strap lengths or some other elements, but overall it should work.

Matt

[Martin Moser]

Just found this thread again ... did you ever get around to finish your caligae you showed the prototype of above, Matt?

I did a first try of those this summer (note that the two tabs up at the front need to be spaced a little bit closer to each other to narrow the gap there):

[QFirmus]

The only wrench in the plans I can see, is that the thinner strap is going to be weaker. Even using 5-7 oz leather...where the hole is on the end of the strap for the lace to go through, is going to be under a fair bit of pressure. Not saying it's going to tear or deteriorate right away, but it's going to fail a lot sooner than one which is wider...or thicker for that matter. Any evidence as to the thickness of the leather used?

Magnus, your comments got me thinking, that that seems a modern reenactor problem, not a ancient Roman problem. By this I mean that we go crazy looking for a "correct" source or a good supplier or accurate reconstruction, we do this as a hobby not a living, though I am aware some are far more active than others. The Roman soldier had access to the equipment, all his stuff was period and he did not agonize over finding good period pottery, etc. So when stuff breaks, which it will, there was a ready source. I think I read somewhere that soldiers were issued so many pairs a year, that there were punishments given by NOT replacing them, etc. So it was probably expected to wear out.

In contrast we treasure our kits and items and probably are far too careful, wanting it to last forever, but it porbably was never meant to. So I think if the evidence points in the direction of certain cut, width, etc, then accuracy and function aren't at odds.

What do you think?

[Magnus]

Yeah, makes sense to me. The point about not having loads of money to replace gear constantly or the backing of a legionary or cohort quartermaster, reallly brings into clarity the phrase "within modern limits".

While the thinner strap might be more historical, from a reenactor's standpoint, there has to be a balance sometimes between historical authenticity and simple functionality and finances.

[Martin Moser]

While the thinner strap might be more historical, from a reenactor's standpoint, there has to be a balance sometimes between historical authenticity and simple functionality and finances.

Hm, no offense meant, but for me at least this means that it would also be ok then to wear the infamous Imperial Trooper Helmet.

[gaiusseptimiuslucianus]

While the thinner strap might be more historical, from a reenactor's standpoint, there has to be a balance sometimes between historical authenticity and simple functionality and finances.

Hm, no offense meant, but for me at least this means that it would also be ok then to wear the infamous Imperial Trooper Helmet.

Martin,

I think you are spot on. If we allow ourselves to cut corners here and there for economy then the cumulative effect is an less and less correct appearance. I'd be willing to bet that with proper care (cleaning, oiling and waxing) you'll be able to get quite a few miles out of those shoes. Good quality vegetable tanned leather is stronger than we give it credit for sometimes but it needs to be cared for just like any weapon or a piece of clothing.

Lucianus
_______
L.E. Pearson

[Magnus]

No, just because you can do "A" doesn't follow that you'll automatically do "B".

Some people feel that being a reenactor means using the needlefelt combat system. I for one, don't have the resources to handle added cost of repairs to my armour. Does this make me less authentic?

There comes a point where you have to draw the line and say, ok, what's feasible and what isn't? If you're that "picky" about such details, I hope you're the one who ONLY speaks latin while in your armour at an event, otherwise, "the cumulative effect is an less and less correct appearance." In fact, I hope your rivets are the correct shape (not modern made), and of the right composition of cupric metals and tin. I also hope you're at LEAST european and lacking any native indian in your ancestory. I hope you're not 80 lbs over weight, with dishpan hands. I hope you haven't used any modern cleaners to keep your armour clean. I hope the metal you've used in your armour was hand hammered, not rolled into sheets. Was the horsehair you used for your helmet crest from a 2000 year old breed of horse? How about the hobnails on your sandals...are they authentic as well?

Gee, that last paragraph sounds pretty stupid doesn't it? Because I can pretty much guarantee you, that even an informed passerby at one of your events who knows Roman Mil. History and gear, isn't going to be measuring your caligae strap thickness! :lol: However, if you can't sleep at night because this type of thing bothers you, then knock yourself out. Must be nice to spend that much time and money on a hobby.

Man, I can't wait till i'm older!

[Matt Lukes]

Well just consider- the thin strap caligae worked for the ROMAN ARMY. They marched all over Europe with these. So they simply can't be super-weak or wear out quickly. Annoyingly I can't recall just where I read it, but it was some original source that suggested going through as few as two pairs of caligae a year was possible for a legionary. If thin strapped caligae lasted even six months of regular wear, the tiny amount of time an average reenactor would wear theirs means you could reenact for decades before needing new ones.

You're only assuming they wouldn't be so great Matt- but I'd put it to you that your logic is flawed; sure thicker straps will be less likely to break, but there's no reason to believe the proper width straps would be weak. Divided among so many straps, any force is significantly reduced per strap and the stress is minor along the foot except perhaps right at the point where the foot meets the leg- the pair of straps there are those that are thickest at the top where the force would be. They seem clearly designed to take the stress apporpriately. Of course it'll be useful to really know how these fare in use- but again since the Romans did make them this way (and thus far all the artifact caligae I've seen have thin straps), they must have been just fine or the design would have been changed to make the straps thicker, yes?

And no, not yet Martin- I put it off until I could get better leather and then once I had that there was the issue of the hobnails, which hopefully will be taken care of soon... but I'll be making them in January I expect. Yours are really great- that's what I hope mine will look like :wink:

[Tarbicus]

That caliga went marching all over the place and it seems to have done the job.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

My personal experience with my calligae (thin straps, not very thichk leather) it's positive. There are almost 7 years old and make a lot of work without breaking. Unic problem i have had it's with the back stitching, that gradually have been "unstitch", so i have forced to "restitch".

My calligae are A LOT worse made than the ones made by people like Juniper, Amt or Moser. So, probably, a very good make calligae with thin straps will resist even better.

I agree with Matt L and Tarbicus. Roman calligae have done the job, showing its design it's well made. Then, why must we change it in order to make it stronger?

A general tendence it's to make reenactment equipment over-reforced than roman ones, with armour and helmets with metal gauges more thick than original ones, or wooden thickness of shields stronger than real ones. Autenticity and "practicity" are not always confronted. It's very hard to carry a shield two times heavier than a roman ones!!!

So, if we have the roman model, we must copy it and don't try to improve it. I think so... :roll:

[Martin Moser]

There comes a point where you have to draw the line and say, ok, what's feasible and what isn't?

True. I only draw the line at a distinctly different range than you do. ;-) ) The point I'm trying to make is that with your equipment you are giving an impression of what things (not men) looked like. If you wear wrong things, you give a wrong impression. And I'm talking about "very visibly wrong". Of course there's grades to it. Plain wrong caligae for me are as bad as a plain wrong helmet/sword/armor/tunic/you-name-it. If it's not visible (quality of metal e.g.) or hardly visible (rivet heads on armor/helmets e.g.), ok, but own up to it and explain how it was/should be when asked about it

I hope you're the one who ONLY speaks latin while in your armour at an event, [snip rest of rant]

No, no need for me because I don't try to reenact a living roman with his language, habits, socialization. Come to think of it, I probably don't reenact at all, at least not in that sense. I try to show and explain reconstructions of things from back then that we know about and put them into cultural, historical etc. context for interested visitors. I wear roman period clothes then because this shows their function better than having them lying around and because I am then easily recognized as somebody you may approach with questions. I could do with a better grip of Latin, though ;-) ) (my son will start it at school next year, so there's light on the horizon ;-) ) )

How about the hobnails on your sandals...are they authentic as well?

Most I used so far are not. Recent ones are getting better, some quite close actually :-) )

Gee, that last paragraph sounds pretty stupid doesn't it?

I agree ;-) )

Because I can pretty much guarantee you, that even an informed passerby at one of your events who knows Roman Mil. History and gear, isn't going to be measuring your caligae strap thickness! :lol:

No, he won't have to if actually he is informed. He might remark though that your shoes are wrong ....

[Caballo]

"Does anyone know of the actual archaeological basis for believing that Legionary caligae were constructed by stitching across the back of the heel and up the back of the ankle/ lower leg section? It strikes me as a design with an inherent weakness at a point where there's a great deal of stress on the sandal. Are there actually artifacts that show these seams? "

The caligae from Qasr Ibrim which I was lucky enough to examine in the British Museum have a vertical reinforcing leather strip at the back of the ankle, covering the seams. The thread is still soft to the touch. It looks as though the shoes had split slightly in this area!

If you send me a PM, happy to email you some pics.

Cheers

Caballo

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

So where do all these designs come from?

Where are the goal posts? :?

Regards