Why was the hasta dropped in the first time

[Aryaman2]

Reading the thread on the transition from pilum to hasta, I wondered, Roman armies did use hasta earlier, the triarii used it until the Late Republic, why was it discarded then?

[arklore70]

If I am not mistaken, they dropped it in order to have some increased organic missile weapon capability ( range mainly) within their their heavy infantry formations.

v/r
Mike

[Paulus Claudius Damianus]

Hello
I don't know if we can say "pilum transition to the hasta" in late roman times. Vegetius talk to the spiculum like a pilum or new late name for pilum characterisation. In late latin text (Ammianus Marcellinus, anonymous panegyrics, Nazarius and co) the "missibilia", "Iaculis" and heavy javelins are calling "pila" too. In other case, In all late roman litterrary souces they don't appears Hasta use like a thrusting spears, only for fighting technics against charges cavalry (exemple: Andrinople battle...) In late primary textes the Hasta is a launching heavy javelins too.

In archéological records, no proof to a long long wood spear. In graphic records too. The late roman army fighting like a old phalangical greec army is a myth with no occurences!

[Robert Vermaat]

I'll answer this one in this thread..

[Paulus Claudius Damianus]

idem to the spatha... There are no abandonment rather an come back for infantry if we compare with the late républican blades. But to the causes, honnestly I don't know... (just one or two idéa but nothing serious...)

[Commilito]

they stopped using the hasta because the old Polybian citizen-soldier legion was discarded in favor of the new auxilaries&legionaries system. The Triarii were basically an outdated military caste...seeing as any citizen who enlisted in the new legions basically got the same training and equipment.

*going into speculative mode*

Also note that after the capitulation of Greece/Macedon, the Romans never again faced a Hellenistic style army, and for the most part, faced semi-barbaric enemies, or, at least enemies who were far to mobile to support the old Manipular Legion. So, they needed more flexible troops, hence the Marian reforms, and the loss of distinction between legionaries.

[Theodosius the Great]

after the capitulation of Greece/Macedon, the Romans never again faced a Hellenistic style army

We mustn't forget Mithradates of Pontus in the 1st C. BC

As I understand it, Sulla went up against and defeated a phalanx army which included scythed chariots.

And the Egyptians, when Caesar was besieged in Alexandria.