Writing a Roman Story

[Graham Sumner]

Hello Maximus

You seem set on the idea of a Cohort / Legion marching off to it's doom in a forest as the beginning of your screenplay, influenced by the Varian disaster or the opening battle in 'The Fall of the Roman Empire' perhaps. This might have appealed to one famous movie director either King Vidor or Cecil B. de Mille who said that they liked to "start off a movie with an earthquake and then work up to a climax!"

OK but that leaves you with few options. Either you then have a flashback to the main character the general 'Varus' perhaps and explain how he and his men ended up getting wiped out. Was Varus a complete fop as is usually portrayed or was he simply the victim of circumstances, betrayed by his treacherous German friend Arminius. A bit like Custer in 'Son of the Morning Star'. Or alternatively your flashback follows a group of squaddies through basic training at the hands of the typical brutish instructor as in 'Full Metal Jacket' or even 'Starship Troopers' which also started off with a disaster and then the flashback! The audience might have built up some sympathy towards the characters by the end but it is a bit negative that you already know they are all going to get killed!

On the other hand some of the men might survive the ambush and the narrative then follows their adventures getting back to base, shades of 'The Lost Patrol' or 'Red Shift' about survivors of the ninth Legion. Perhaps there is just one survivor who is found by the Barbarians and lives with them for years slowly coming to realise that the 'Barbarians' are not so 'Barbarian' after all, 'Dances with Wolves' or 'A Man called Horse'.

I would appluad the attention to accurate historical detail and do not see how this can detract from the drama as so many Hollywood directors seem to fear and thus avoid. It would appear that they equate historical accuracy with dullness, 'Alexander' might be a case in point but I think 'Master and Commander' proved otherwise.

I really have seen too many movies havn't I ! But seriously Maximus I love any Roman movie good or bad, epic or small so I wish you all the best with your screenplay and will be the first to go and see it if it ever becomes a reality.

Graham.

[Maximus]

Thank you, for your support. I wonder, what would be the legionaries response to an ambush? And I think I want to show this through the perspective of a legionary. This may be daring what im about to say but im thinking the camera will be more like from a documentary, rough movements. I feel that would give more feeling to it. Im thinking once I get a chapter done ill post it here for checking what do you guys think? Any other help would be appreciated too.

[Maximus]

no more responses?

[Caius Fabius]

It's different to write fiction, because the author knows what is going on. In a real ambush (I was in a couple, both real "shooting" ones and several "practice" ones) everything is confused and training dictates how you will respond. Some people are in shock, some just jump at the excitement quickly and react, some just follow a leader.

I usually find writers with no combat experience writing about combat are usually out of their depth, much like a virgin writing a book on sexual pleasure, or a man writing about being a woman. If you want to interview some military veterans, police, soldiers, gangbangers, victums, and see how they reacted, then you might have a better idea, much like actually putting Roman armor and living in it for a few days helps you write about living as a miles, but you cannot put yourself into the culture or situation, and you will only get heresay or 2nd hand knowledge asking people to tell you how to get the feel for combat.

The Oliver Stone "Alexander" or Ridley Scott "Gladiator" visuals aren't even close to what I experienced, but other people might relate to them?
I think it would be interesting to put digital mini-cams in helmets and let reenactors wear them in simulated situations. (There will be ambushes at Lafe in 2006!)

Want to get a real good idea for how to make a unique film, try "Russian Ark" by Alexandr Sokurov, which was shot using a digital steadycam and no cuts, all in one continious 96 minute shot!

[Maximus]

ok casius, you say you have been in a few ambushes so can i start with an interview of you?

Also, are there any historical accounts of ambushes besides the really big ones like teutoberg forest? Like even a patrol or something? I think for this I want the romans to be victorious but if there is a historical reference I would go by that.

[Atrectus]

Charles, don't underestimate the skills of an experienced writer. There are a number of ways to deal with writing about things outside your personal experience. If writers limited themselves to what they know / have experienced, there would be lots of dull books around because few of us have been in fe. ambushes, car chases, space fights or a victim of torture. Not to mention that if you didn't write the opposite gender of your own, you would have a limited cast of characters and there'd be no romance.

I have no problems with battle scenes and male characters. Reading a lot helps, asking friends for a crit, things like that. Writing has to be learned, and it takes time and a lot of wrong words. :wink:

[Maximus]

I really appreciate your confidence but im not an experienced writer. For some reason I cant seem to get my diolouge to a level I feel is acceptable (this might have something to do with the fact that I am a perfectionist but w/e).
Anyone want to point me in the direction of some good diolouge ideas?

[hoplite14gr]

Additional troops in the first cemtury legion would be Thracian horsemen and possibly Cretan archers if you want variety. Barbarian turncoats acting as scouts too. (Think indian scouts of US cavalry.)

When you know that action is imminent you stomach tightens, usually you feell dry throat and you tongue sticking to to your mouth.
Inexperienced troops might feel their bladder emptying uncontrollably.
(The "smell" of glory '-mind you, even veterans are not 100% immune to this).

The cast of the pilum to the charging barbarians whose screams give a sence of gutwrenching terror might be an act of relief. (It is a true feeling I assure you! Is like the momentus relief when modern troops here the order fire!)

Still scared the leggionary engages with the blade. The scream of the gutted opponent can swich a man into killing frenzy.
There are medic reports of veterans who cannot remember how the overcame in the end or what happened during themalee.

You can take my word or ignore me but I assure you the "smell" of glory and the screams of helpeleness when you canot help a dying comraid are the true face of battle.
As people wrote in the warrior poems there is no glory in war, and the only positive feeling is to be alive while others are dead.
Its the same from the first neolithic warband to the most moderm army.

Kind regards

[Caius Fabius]

replied privately

[FAVENTIANVS]

Additional troops in the first cemtury legion would be Thracian horsemen and possibly Cretan archers if you want variety. Barbarian turncoats acting as scouts too. (Think indian scouts of US cavalry.)

When you know that action is imminent you stomach tightens, usually you feell dry throat and you tongue sticking to to your mouth.
Inexperienced troops might feel their bladder emptying uncontrollably.
(The "smell" of glory '-mind you, even veterans are not 100% immune to this).

The cast of the pilum to the charging barbarians whose screams give a sence of gutwrenching terror might be an act of relief. (It is a true feeling I assure you! Is like the momentus relief when modern troops here the order fire!)

Still scared the leggionary engages with the blade. The scream of the gutted opponent can swich a man into killing frenzy.
There are medic reports of veterans who cannot remember how the overcame in the end or what happened during themalee.

You can take my word or ignore me but I assure you the "smell" of glory and the screams of helpeleness when you canot help a dying comraid are the true face of battle.
As people wrote in the warrior poems there is no glory in war, and the only positive feeling is to be alive while others are dead.
Its the same from the first neolithic warband to the most moderm army.

Kind regards

I'm impressed Stephanos, it seems you have really passed through these experiences...

[andym]

Not sure if you have read any Simon Scarrow,but you might get a few ideas there.

[Maximus]

Ok Im thinking, I currently have two plot lines i could follow and I want to know which one you guys and gals would be more interested in so here they are:

A
1.Camp
2.Officers tent
3.Muster/ March
4.Forest (build up to ambush)
5.Ambush/ Battle
6.Aftermath
7.Regroup (continue to outpost) ?
8.Find outpost destroyed ?

Not sure about #7 &8

B
1.Introduction
2.Signing up
3.Boot Camp/ assignment
4. Arriving at post/ reporting for duty
5. Meeting comrads
6. Muster/ March
7.Open field battle
8.Victory/ Aftermath
9.Relflection (not what thought it would be)

I think B is a more personal one.

Tell me which you guys like and why as well as any ideas for improvement

[Maximus]

So which script line do you lads and lasses think I should go with?

[Marcus F.]

I think B is better. Most movies about Romans focus too much about the imperial family and other high ranking folks. War-movies that focus on regular soldiers are usually much more interesting and the audience identifies themselves more with them than with officers and generals. Choose a young recruit to become your main character, so what he learns in his training is also telling the viewer a lot about the Roman army in contradiction to usual "Sword & Sandal"-movie.

[Maximus]

Ok I was leaning towards B, what should I name the lad? you can name the main character.