Iron Greek helms

[Caius Valens]

Hi Constaine here, Im have been seeing Iron Corthian helms on the intrent for sale for about 100.00 US. Did the ancient Greeks use only Brass helms which I thought was the case, or was there Iron helms? Take care Thomas

[hoplite14gr]

Iron helmets have been positively identified with Greeks at late Classic early Hellenistic period and afterwards. What cerificates the seller is offering or how much examinaton will he allow?
Kind regards
Stefanos

[Jason Hoffman]

More than Likely you are seeing Deepeeka reproductions which are mass produced in India, They are the most common 'Corinthian' Helmet on the market. They are taken from the late archaic / Classical period and were mostly (read, always, but as new discoveries are always being made !) made of Bronze. again i stress iron ones cannot be ruled out, its just that bronze lasts so much better than iron.

[Nectanebo]

While late classical or hellenistic iron helmets are possible (the helmet in the tomb at Vergina was iron), they wouldn't be Corinthian. there are more likely to ne of "Thracian", "Phrygian" or "Attic" type. The Vergina helmet was basically an Attic helmet with a Phrygian shaped crest.

[Anonymous]

There are both steel and brass Corinthian helmets on the market, at present. Syndicate Armoury are now producing a BRONZE one, which will be available in the new year.

If you're that keen on Ancient Greeks, * SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT!* pop over to the UK for the First International Ancient Greek Festival on the 3rd and 4th of June, 2006. *SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT!*

Neither Jason nor "Nectanebo" has yet declared an intention to attend; why not?

[deepeeka]

[Robert Vermaat]

Folks, please discuss marketplace items in the marketplace section.

[Anonymous]

Would anyone like to set a date from which one would expect to see iron helmets. Nectanebo, ar you saying there are no recorded finds of iron Corinthians?
The big attraction of these items is that they're CHEAP, which is my second-favourite word. (Yep! My favourite is "free")!

[Nectanebo]

Would anyone like to set a date from which one would expect to see iron helmets. Nectanebo, ar you saying there are no recorded finds of iron Corinthians?
The big attraction of these items is that they're CHEAP, which is my second-favourite word. (Yep! My favourite is "free")!

AFAIK there are no recorded iron "Corinthian" helmets. The Vergina helmet dates from the mid-4th century BC, however this was probably a royal tomb, so it is hard to say that this type of helmet was typical for this period, my guess is that it certainly wasn't.

Even if some iron helmets were used by the 4th century BC, bronze helmets continued to be used until the late Roman empire, i.e. circa 300 AD.

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

Given the recent talk and images on another thread of painted helmets, would not paintng an iron Corinthian be a cheap and sneaky way around not being semi-authentic. If no bronze would show anyway... and I see iron Corinthians for 50 bucks...

But there is the matter of the crest which is going be more expensive in materials alone. So if you going to do one, spend the extra bucks on a bronze one, and do it right argument to counter my first thought.

But then again, you could quickly get a collection of exquisitly painted iron ones that go with, match, or make a statement, with each stunning outfit you have.

LYKAON
G.D. Aquilius
(Ralph Izard)

[Anonymous]

Given the recent talk and images on another thread of painted helmets, would not paintng an iron Corinthian be a cheap and sneaky way around not being semi-authentic. If no bronze would show anyway... and I see iron Corinthians for 50 bucks...

But there is the matter of the crest which is going be more expensive in materials alone. So if you going to do one, spend the extra bucks on a bronze one, and do it right argument to counter my first thought.

But then again, you could quickly get a collection of exquisitly painted iron ones that go with, match, or make a statement, with each stunning outfit you have.

LYKAON
G.D. Aquilius


(Ralph Izard)

You've got a point. I've toyed with the idea, myself but, since I have two brass Corinthians and two bronze ones on the way, I've not proceeded. Why would crest making be more expensive, though, Ralph? You make the box out of wood, just as with brass/bronze helmets. Interestingly, the particular shade of blue Kallimachos used exactly matches my favourite aspis and would tone very nicely with my "shortie" chiton...

[Gaius Opius Fugi]

That's not a bad idea at all!

Painting the cheap iron helms, as long as they're the correct pattern, would make it easier to recruit from amongst college students that hardly have an extra penny in their pocket. I've come across tons of college students who would like to do reenacting of some period or another, but the cost on top of tuition is what pushes them away. The question about painting the helmets, however, is what time frame and what colors are accurate for this procedure? Also, was this a common place practice, or just a few individuals who decided to decorate their gear? You don't necessarily want a whole column of rainbow colored helmets, when historically they were mostly bronze colored.

Cheers,
Adam

P.S. Yes, I'm trying to find ways that won't kill your pocket book and you can do Greek reenacting. I'm hoping to get some friends into the hobby (money is their only excuse) so that I won't be the only Greek from Florida...

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

Paul,

The expense in the crest is not the wood, which shuld be about a 1 inch thick piece of somethng like oak or poplar, about $5... but unless you knowa horse owner, gettng the right amount of horsehair, which will run at least $30-40. Also I figure in the labor element, which is not an actual cost, is still significant. It's a personal preference on my part , but I am reluctant to paint up an expensive bronze helmet, since bronze has a natural appeal to me anyway.

Adam,

I am under an impression that painted helmets seem to be popular from the Peloponesian war on... but I am not sure about that. Colors? Umm, Ahh...?

On a seperate note,
I do not understand why both Highschool and College level Drama departments insist on using crushed aluminum foil for helmets when they do Greek plays, gven they could do the iron helmets as a class project. Other than they don't care about realitic props. A friend who is taking costuming at the U mentioned my collection and suggested they hit me up to borrow it, but drew a blank stare from the faculty.

LYKAON
(Ralph Izard)
BTW, anyone know where Hoplite14gr is? Haven't seen anything from him in days...

[Gaius Opius Fugi]

Ralph,

Thanks for the feedback. So if I'm to con my friends into doing this, it'll need to be Peloponesian War. That's workable . Besides, I can do the ealier stuff by myself like I have been.

As for drama departments....well...I'm going to withhold comment. There are distinct reasons why I got out of doing theater, and never signed up for classes at the school.

Cheers,
Adam

P.S. I wouldn't paint the bronze either, especially after spending the cash for it.

[hoplite14gr]

Painted helemts exist mostly form art evidence.
Marble was painted so that the equisite whitenes would not reflect light and blind the viewer.
None of the Olympia arms collection showed traces of paint.
The painted scales are an option but in the Bronze age forum someone reconstructed a "scales-made" Egyptian helmet.
So I belive there is valid reason to think that the scales were not jut artistic licence on some helmets.
The leather corinthian that so much bad criticism atracted, would be better than no helmet at all! True no original survived but if an ancient wanted political rights and had spent all his bucks in shield and weapons he could start with whatever available and loot his way up!

I agree with Adam striving fo authenticity teaches you what it meant finacialy to be a ancient hoplite. I have to agree that I "watered down my wine" significantly in order to make it. Especially for the shield.
Kind regards