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So what else do I do with my Pugio
#46
Hoplite,

Very difficult to say really. One thing that we do know is that privately purchased equipment was acceptable in the army in the Early Imperial period. Bishop and Coulston cite letters in the Terentius Archive where a marine with aspirations to join a legion writes to his family asking them to send him military belts and a pickaxe and some of the Vindolanda tablets record items of clothing sent to soldiers by their families. It seems likely that the army commissioned and bought stocks of military equipment and clothing but had no objection to soldiers obtaining kit privately, which would in any case allow the army's stock to go further. It is likely that soldiers may have been able to sell excess kit back to the army as well. Another letter cited by Bishop and Coulston is from the army to the mother of a deceased soldier and lists payment to her for a number of items of military equipment which had belonged to the soldier and which the army was obviously retaining by purchasing it back from the decease's family. This letter, with its itemised list of items and prices, suggests that there was a 'buy-back' system in operation, allowing the army to retain supplies of kit. Soldiers who obtained privately produced equipment might have been able to take advantage of this system to get the army to take back issued items which were now excess to their requirements. B & C also refer to a cavalryman who used a dagger sheath decorated with ivory as security for a loan. It might be reasonable to think that this sheath was not issued by the army but instead was purched privately.

As to daggers simply being acceptable privately purchased items again it is impossible to know, although the degree of standardisation to be found in daggers and their sheaths suggests to me that most were manufactured to specifications issued by the army, meaning that although there is great variety, this variety falls within fairly strict parameters most of the time. The fact that not all soldiers carry daggers does not necessarily mean they were not issued by the army. There may have been subtle differences between the equipment of troops in different units or between troops who may have had different roles within the same units which we are not party to.
Two well known daggers may offer clues to an answer to your question. The Oberamagau dagger has the message 'C.ANTONIVS.FECIT' inlaid on its guard, suggesting a private (although not necessarily so) purchase and one of the daggers from Mainz has the message 'LEG XXII PRIMI' on its sheath, identifying the unit of its owner (although this does not necessarily mean that it was commissioned or issed by the army).

I suppose that this has really been a round about way of simply saying I don't know, but I hope it is of some use.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers.  :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

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#47
Thank you very informative.
Some practices like that survive even to modern armies.
For instance I was recquired to give back or be charged for them the following: Blanket, bandage, and towels.
Though modern armies stick to uniformity and úsually dont like privetly puchased items to be diplayed. Though in the field or in action this rule is not enforced.
Kind regards
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#48
I remember now seeing a great show from BBC that was on PBS here in the States, called "Roman Soldiers To Be", and one of the guys figured out his Pugio made a really nice Strigil to scrape off oil and dirt off his hand - using the oil to wash up after he got a bit grubby, and then used the pugio to scrape it off, then using a rag to finish up.

Of course, I don't see this as the primary use..But it was interesting!

I do still see it as a "side-arm"/secondary weapon, but if history has to say anything, soldiers of any period will find all sorts of "alternative" uses to thier equipment, issued or bought/obtained.
Andy Volpe
"Build a time machine, it would make this [hobby] a lot easier."
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Legion III Cyrenaica ~ New England U.S.
Higgins Armory Museum 1931-2013 (worked there 2001-2013)
(Collection moved to Worcester Art Museum)
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#49
I thought of something else you can do with it by reading those earlier posts about bayonets.

Tie your pugio to the end of your lance in case your pilum has a misfire!
AVETE OMNES
MARIVS TARQVINIVS VRSVS
PATER FAMILIAS DOMVS VRSVM
-Tom
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#50
Andy I think that the leggionarry scraping hinself with the puggio was showing bravando. Romans were aware of the Greek "stleggis" for this job.
Tom you describe a situation that was possible used in "dire strates".
I aggree they were possible uses but not the norm.
Personaly I am inclines to agree with Crispus.
Kind regards
Stefanos
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#51
Quote:I remember now seeing a great show from BBC that was on PBS here in the States, called "Roman Soldiers To Be", and one of the guys figured out his Pugio made a really nice Strigil to scrape off oil and dirt off his hand - using the oil to wash up after he got a bit grubby, and then used the pugio to scrape it off, then using a rag to finish up.

Of course, I don't see this as the primary use..But it was interesting!

I do still see it as a "side-arm"/secondary weapon, but if history has to say anything, soldiers of any period will find all sorts of "alternative" uses to thier equipment, issued or bought/obtained.

Dudicus,

I could see where this would work well with the Deepeka pugios since they have such a thick edge. However the originals I have seen in person seem to have a thin edge. This leads me to believe that they were thin so they could have a better cutting edge. I wouldnt want to try scraping myself with a blade that I have sharpend.
"...quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."


a.k.a. Paul M.
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#52
Has anyone tried shaving with ancient style razors?
Say over a re enactment weekend or event?

Any advice?
Mike Daniels
a.k.a

Titus Minicius Parthicus

Legio VI FFC.


If not me...who?

If not now...when?
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#53
Not yet. I went and blunted mine by using it to cut leather thonging. I will have to sharpen it up again and have a go.

Crispvs :roll:
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers.  :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

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#54
Quote:Andy I think that the leggionarry scraping hinself with the puggio was showing bravando. Romans were aware of the Greek "stleggis" for this job.
Tom you describe a situation that was possible used in "dire strates".
I aggree they were possible uses but not the norm.
Personaly I am inclines to agree with Crispus.
Kind regards
Stefanos

My post was tongue-in-cheek in response to the post of using a pugio like a bayonet. Bayonets are used in case your rifle has a misfire, so I pictured a legionary tying a pugio to the end of his pilum and throwing it in case the pilum failed to "go off".
AVETE OMNES
MARIVS TARQVINIVS VRSVS
PATER FAMILIAS DOMVS VRSVM
-Tom
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