Caligae sources

[Martin Moser]

Hi,

I wouldn't go as far as call ing me an expert here, but I'm happy to contribute what I know about the current status of research here :-) )

I checked with my availabe sources and it seems that caligae were made from leather made from cows' hides. I couldn't find anything on the thickness of the uppers for caligae, but the (later) shoes from Welzheim for example average 2mm for the upper and 4mm for the sole. I would estimate 2-3mm for the upper for caligae, considering that they were made for "heavy duty" wear.

Of course closed shoes can do and did with thinner leather for the uppers, which then often was calf, goat or some other fine leather. There is a find from Egypt I think where possibly gazelle leather, alum tanned, was used.

I just got some alum tanned almost white goat leather from a tanner here 2 weeks ago that I plan to use for calcei (some time soon hopefully).

Horse leather was used as well, but seldomly. Of course identification of the leather is not always possible nor 100% secure

As for the soles of caligae, they are about 3-5mm thick from what I could find. Standard is also a 3-layer construction, outer sole, middle which is also the piece of leather the upper is cut from and an insole.

For reference works see the posts above, please.

cheers,

Martin

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Another time, thanks.... :wink:

[Antonius Congianocus]

Hello,

IMHO some 90%+ of those worn today show rather inaccurate cutting patterns and, most of all, (in simple words) too much leather and too little skin

It’s is entirely possible, and logical, that the Roman’s showed more skin on their Caligae during summer months or when on campaign in say, North Africa.

Then, would fabricate a more closed version during the cooler winter months or when on campaign in say, Britain.

Also, most likely, the Romans had far more variations on all articles of clothing and armor then we have record of. Obviously, to the recreator, we only want to recreate what we know for sure existed, which is why we base our clothing, armor, helms, etc on authentic unearthed items and those displayed in art and sculpture.

Antonius

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

It’s is entirely possible, and logical, that the Roman’s showed more skin on their Caligae during summer months or when on campaign in say, North Africa.

Then, would fabricate a more closed version during the cooler winter months or when on campaign in say, Britain

I think that argument is weak: practically all the calligae have been founded at cold climate places like Germany and Britain.

[Martin Moser]

It’s is entirely possible, and logical, that the Roman’s showed more skin on their Caligae during summer months or when on campaign in say, North Africa.

Then, would fabricate a more closed version during the cooler winter months or when on campaign in say, Britain

I think that argument is weak: practically all the calligae have been founded at cold climate places like Germany and Britain.

Yes, I think so, too. None of those show broader straps. Also, why should they make caligae with broader straps instead of simlpy wearing closed shoes (of which we again have finds)?

cheers,

Martin

[Antonius Congianocus]

Hello,

I am honestly not debating what has been unearthed but please, don’t call me logic weak.

I wallow in abhorrence with the proposal of finding myself in disagreement with you however; in scientific research we have a saying “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.â€ÂÂ

[Martin Moser]

Hi Anthony,

I certainly did not mean to call you "logic weak", nor did Cesar, I am sure - sorry (we both are not native English speakers, so please allow for that, too, in the preciseness of how we put things). We can only argue in terms of probabilities and for that I still think that as it goes the argument for caligae with broader straps for winter use is a comparatively weak one. Considering that closed shoes were certainly in use at the same time as caligae, I personally find it more reasonably for anybody with cold feet to go for those :-) ) .
Of course I can and will not say that such caligae never existed. The Negotiator stele from Neumagen (2nd half 2nd cent.) in fact suggests they did, at least in a only ankle-high version and with civilians. According to van Driel-Murray, military use of caligae seems to have been over at that time, however.

As you say “absence of evidence is not evidence of absenceâ€ÂÂ

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Apologizes.

Logic and romans are not ever the same thing. Some things we can think are "ilogicall" for the romans not were.

I have only pointed that even the calligae founded in wet and cold climates were constructed in thin strips. Why? Probably, they have some reasons that we don't know, and dificult to explain only with logic parameters.

[tlclark]

I have been looking for patterns for equestrian open toed boots and senatorial or calvary boots as seen so often on images of Marcus Aurelius and all I can find is caligae patterns.

You can see these type of shoes here for example.

http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica/parts.htm#boots

Also, I am looking for patterns for byzantine caligae, circa 5-7th C.

Any ideas?

[Matthew Amt]

Antonius Congianocus\\n[quote] in scientific research we have a saying “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.â€Â

[hansvl]

[quote]in scientific research we have a saying “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.â€ÂÂ

[Tarbicus]

The studs let them down, but they're not bad all things considered:
LEATHER ROMAN SOLDIER SANDLES

[Flavius Promotus]

I have never walked in snow with caligae, but with 3rd century closed boots - my feet became soaking wet from melting snow in no time, so it probably does not matter that much whether footwear was 'closed' or 'open'.
As long as you stay in motion your feet don't cool out (plus wearing thick socks is always useful ), but standing on guard for hours ?
You could perhaps break off your toes and use them for your slingshot

Martin, I don't want to ruin your day, but according to my memory the insole was nailed together with the outer sole and the lower part of the upper layer - not added later. So you have a three layer sandwich held together by the clenched nails. Not very comfortable when sweat and pressure compact the insole and the clenched nails come up (OUTCH!).
However, upcoming nails can be beaten down, and there have been findings of additional felt inlays. Resourceful Romans !

BTW, my garrison town is only 1-2 hours from Munich, so perhaps we can exchange data one day :wink:

[Martin Moser]

Hi Flavius,

Martin, I don't want to ruin your day, but according to my memory the insole was nailed together with the outer sole and the lower part of the upper layer - not added later. So you have a three layer sandwich held together by the clenched nails. Not very comfortable when sweat and pressure compact the insole and the clenched nails come up (OUTCH!).

Yes, you are right, that seems to have been the standard. I probably didn't make it clear that what I meant was that this can be easily avoided with the reconstructions by only nailing through the first and second layer (from below). Thanks for spotting that error of mine! The layers were not exclusively (but mostly, to judge by the finds) held together by nails, btw (to avoid another wrong impression), it could also be a combination of nailing/glueing/sewing.
Besides, I just checked my caligae and find that with the material I used so far the effect of compression and nails coming through those first 2 layers is negligible - maybe paying the price I did for that leather was worth it after all (just deluding myself ;-) ) )

BTW, my garrison town is only 1-2 hours from Munich, so perhaps we can exchange data one day

Any time :-) ) . We actually might have met in Regensburg 2 years ago, perhaps - 2 or 3 members of your group approached me some time before your march at the Brueckenfest and we talked about equipment and marching experiences (I took part in a 2 week/250-300km march back in 1995).

cheers,

Martin

[Martin Moser]

The studs let them down, but they're not bad all things considered:
LEATHER ROMAN SOLDIER SANDLES

The pattern certainly is not bad, but the way the heel is done is just awful IMHO...

Martin