Is there someone who understands Italian?

[Marcus Mummius]

Salve Fratres,

I'm writing an essay on Porto Cesareo ( located in Apulia, Southeren Italy). It's a paper about the relations between the natives of Southeren Italy and the Greeks. Most of the sources I have are Italian and I don't speak Italian. I've tried using a dictionary but it is still very dificult to understand everything. If someone could translate this short passage I'd be very grateful!

Per quanto riguarda la Grecia, i rapporti con Italia appaiono in questo periodo quasi inesistenti, mentre si incomincia ad avvertire una timida ripresa a partire dalla seconda metà del IX e nei primi decenni dell'VIII secolo, come testiminiano i rari frammenti di ceramica importata, rinvenuti ad Otranto e a Porto Cesareo. Durante questo sostanziale, lungo intervallo nei rapporti tra la Grecia e l'Italia si verificano importanti mutamenti nel quadro etnico-culturale dell Italia antica, di cui si trova scarsa eco negli autori greci, i quali sembrano rifarsi ancora, generalmente, alla situazione dell'età micenea.

Thanks a lot in advance,
Kind regards,

[Comerus Gallus]

Contact Julia Vegetia from New Hamshire find her:
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/profile.ph ... ofile&u=11
& Luca from Italy: http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/profile.ph ... file&u=330
both Rat members... Good luck!... I undertand it but , but I would need a dicccionary for some words

[Goffredo]

Ciao
I can help but I read your message only now and in 15 minutes I have to leave and will get to destination only tomorrow! I will translate it as soon as possible

Jeff

[hansvl]

Hi Jef,

I will try a translation in Dutch for you. You can verify it with the English version Goffredo (or somebody else) will provide.

Here goes: "Wat betreft Griekenland, de banden met Italië lijken in deze periode quasi onbestaande, ook al begint er een aarzelende herneming te komen (van de banden) vanaf de tweede helft van de negende en de eerste decennia van de achtste eeuw, zoals enkele zeldzame ingevoerde keramiekresten getuigen, gevonden te Otranto en te Porto Cesareo. Gedurende deze substantiële, lange interval in de banden tussen Griekenland en Italië merken we belangrijke veranderingen op etnisch-cultureel vlak in het Oude Italia, waarvan we bij de Griekse auteurs maar weinig terugvinden. Zij lijken zich noch altijd, algemeen gezien, zich te richten op de situatie van de Myceense periode."

Greetings,

Hans

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Well, my italian is better than my english. I'll try to give you an attempt of traduction, and you can translate it to a better english:

"Concerning Greece land, relationships with Italy were in that time almost nonexistent, and coming to note a timid revival, from second half IX century and first decades of VIII century, like shows the rare fragments of imported ceramic wares, founded in Otranto and Porto Cesareo. In that important, long interval in the relationship between Greeceland and Italy important changes are verified in the ethnic-cultural composition of ancient Italy, from what we found little echoes in old greek writers, who seems to reefers yet, generally, to the micean age situation."

I hope that helps you.

[hansvl]

Hi,

I'm glad my translation complies with the English translation by Avitianus

Hans

[Marcus Mummius]

Thanks everyone! You are all very kind. I am very grateful.

@Hans: where did you study? At Leuven or at Brussels? If you studied archeology in Leuven you must remender Van Wonterghem's seminars and writing papers with nothing but Italian sources available. I can read Dutch, English, French, German and Latin but I can't read Italian...

I've got another short fragment here. I understand most of it but some (most) details are a little unclear:

Durante il cosiddetto Medioevo ellenico, per quasi tre secoli, i rapporti tra la Grecia e l'Italia si affievolirono fortemente, cossicché ai naviganti greci si sostituirono in parte i Fenici e altri popoli del Vicino Oriente. I Fenici preferivano sequire una rotta di cabotaggio lungo la costa settentrionale dell’Africa, risalendo poi lungo la penisola iberica e raggiungendo la Sardegna. Tuttavia, approfittando del vuoto creato dalla scomparsa dei naviganti micinei e prima dell’inizio della colonizzazione storica, essi cominciarono a fequenyare anche le coste della Sicillia e della pinisola italica, dalla Calabria all’Etruria, allo scalo di Pitecusa. In ambiti piu circoscritti si istituirono rapporti di scambio tra Liburni e Dauni nell’Adriatico centro-settentrionale, tra Illiri dell’Albania e Mesapi nel Canale d’Otranto.

Again, I'd like to thank you very much!

Kindest regards,

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Ufffff:

During the so-called hellenic Medioevo, by almost 3 century, relationships between Greece and Italy weakens strongly, because greek shipmen were substituded partially by phoenician and other man form near orient. Phoenician prefers to make cabotaggio (it is a nvigation sistem that consist to follow rutes very close to the coast,not in deep sea) along the septentrional coast of Africa, coming along iberic halfilsland, and arriving to Sardegna. Too, thanks to the empty created by the fall of the shipmen from Mycenes and before the beginning of the historic colonization, they begans to arrive to Sicilian coasts and Italic halfisland, from Callabria to Etruria. In more close ambits exchange relationshisps were created between Liburni and Dauni in the center-septentrional Adriatic, between Ilirian from Albania and Mesapi in the Otranto's channel.

Now, italian and english speakers will hate me, for the linguistic aberrations i have made. I hope you can undestand the sense.

[Marcus Mummius]

Thanks Lucius,
it does make sense! I only do not get this part:

In more close ambits exchange relationshisps were created between Liburni and Dauni in the center-septentrional Adriatic, between Ilirian from Albania and Mesapi in the Otranto's channel.

What does 'close ambits' mean?

Kind regards,

[hansvl]

Hi Jef,

Here's my try at a Dutch translation:
"Gedurende de zogenaamde Helleense middeleeuwen, van zowat drie eeuwen, verzwakten de banden tussen Griekenland en Italië sterk, zodat de Griekse zeelui vervangen werden door deels de Feniciërs en deels volkeren uit het Nabije Oosten. De Feniciërs hadden een voorkeur voor een zeeroute langsheen de Noordkust van Afrika, om zo uit te komen langsheen de Iberische kust en aldus Sardinië bereikend. Niettemin, profiterend van de leegte gecreëerd door het wegvallen van de Myceense zeelui en vóór het begin van de historische kolonisatie, begonnen dezen (de feniciërs) ook de kusten van Sicilië en het Italiaanse Schiereiland te frequenteren, van Calabria tot Etrurië, vanuit de uitvalsbasis Pitecusa (eiland nabij Napels). In meer besloten kring kwamen er ook banden van (economische) uitwisseling tussen Liburni en Dauni in centraal-noordelijk Adriatische Zee, tussen Illirië vanuit Albanië en Mesapi in het Kanaal van Otranto."

@Hans: where did you study? At Leuven or at Brussels? If you studied archeology in Leuven you must remender Van Wonterghem's seminars and writing papers with nothing but Italian sources available. I can read Dutch, English, French, German and Latin but I can't read Italian..

Well, I actually studied at the best university of Belgium: Ghent :wink:

Greetings,

hans

[Marcus Mummius]

Here's my try at a Dutch translation:

Great! Thanks!

Well, I actually studied at the best university of Belgium: Ghent Wink

I'll pretend I didn't hear that :roll:


Thanks a lot guys!