3rd Century Roman Stuff! Deepeeka, etc...

[Gregory J. Liebau]

Hey folks,

I'm a Bronze Age enthusiast, but I like other eras up through the dark ages. I've gotten rid of all of the stuff I previously owned from eras except the Bronze Age, and am itching to get at least one good outfit together that isn't from that era. One of the outfits I'm debating would be 3rd century Roman.

I don't want to pour LOTS of effort into this one, but I want to look accurate, and above all, intricate. The main reason I want to do a later era is because there wasn't much intricacy in the Bronze Age that I can achieve by wearing belts with plates on them, and finely crafted jewelry, etc... I like that look, and I want it!

The first item I'd like is this third century spatha by Deepeeka. I've seen drawn reconstructions of an identical sword in Peter Connolly's Greece and Rome at War, and thought this would be a good choice since it seems to be based on a particular find.

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/ah-2002.JPG (full view)
http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/im ... -2002b.JPG (hilt close-up)

It's $190.00. Seem worth it?

Second would be a Pugio... This one by Deepeeka also seems to closely resemble a piece Connolly showed in G&RaW and said was from the 3rd century.

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/im ... 3264-l.jpg

$104.00. Opinions?

And finally from Deepeeka, a late Roman belt, again shown reconstructed by Connolly... I happen to REALLY like this belt!

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/ah-6702.JPG
http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/im ... -6702a.JPG

$144.00.

Now, to supplement these things, what would I use? I'd probably like to do an infantryman from the era, as I don't have a horse. What type of armor would a 3rd century soldier with this gear be expecting to wear? What kind of shield, tunic, pants, shoes, etc..? Spear or hastata velitaris (spelling!) or the likes?

Any feedback would be appreciated!

Thanks!

-Gregory-

[Theodosius the Great]

Greetings Gregory,

I happen to be working on this era as well.

Spatha & pugio

I have both the spatha and pugio you linked to. They're very good for "off-the-shelf" items I'm told.

Belt/cingulum

But that belt you linked to isn't appropriate for the period unless you're doing late late third century. That type was worn primarily in the 4th and 5th centuries. BTW, I'm told it isn't a good reproduction anyway although I think it looks ok.

To get a third century belt you'll have to get one custom made. If you want more details just ask.

Scutum

The AH-6718-L Legionary Scutum is a good shield to get and it's based entirely on an archeological find dated to the early third century. It's pricy on by-the-sword.com but you can probably find it cheaper on eBay.

Armor/Lorica

Armor for this period is tough to get, so the best way to go is chainmail with short sleeves. You can find one on [url:13yun8mx]http://www.lawrensnest.com[/url]

Boots

You can also get a pair of 3rd century boots from there as well.

Helmets

I have an Italic "H" helmet that's dated to the mid to late 2nd century. It's plausible to use this type due to the life span of helmets.

[url:13yun8mx]http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/ah-6304.jpg[/url]

You should look around for the best price as always.

Spear : Pilum or Hasta

You can still use a pilum for this period although the hasta was coming into wider use and would eventually replace it by the end of the 3rd century as the primary spear.

Tunic

Tunics are long sleeved by this period and are decorated with vertical stripes called clavii, one on each shoulder extending all the way down to the hem. Also there are a pair of stripes on the cuffs as well.

Personally I don't think you can pull this off without spending at least $1,000.00

Good luck with your impression.

Theo

[Gregory J. Liebau]

I have both the spatha and pugio you linked to. They're very good for "off-the-shelf" items I'm told.

Thanks.

But that belt you linked to isn't appropriate for the period unless you're doing late late third century. That type was worn primarily in the 4th and 5th centuries. BTW, I'm told it isn't a good reproduction anyway although I think it looks ok.

Ah, okay. I was thinking that the belt may have gone a bit better with the "Late, late Spatha" that Deepeeka makes, but I don't really like that one, and it's 4th century, I believe. I think I found an image in Connolly of a simpler belt that's supposedly 3rd century. I could almost make it myself, actually... Looks pretty simple.

As for the rest, all looks like good information! Thank you, Theo!

I'll think about whether or not to put the outfit together, or not. There are plenty of other eras I seem to enjoy equally, so it'll take some hard thinking!

I'm going to try to get that Spatha, though, to go with my other Deepeeka pieces! I really do love that sword!

Cheers!

-Gregory-

[Theodosius the Great]

I think I found an image in Connolly of a simpler belt that's supposedly 3rd century. I could almost make it myself, actually... Looks pretty simple.

Very smart, wish I thought of that. You just saved over $100

I'm going to try to get that Spatha

The one in the red scabbard ? That's the one I have.

I'll think about whether or not to put the outfit together, or not. There are plenty of other eras I seem to enjoy equally, so it'll take some hard thinking!

Like I said : you should check around for prices. You can go to Matt Amt's site under "Suppliers" [url:rqkbq8u1]http://www.larp.com/legioxx[/url] and there you'll find many vendors with Deepeeka gear with varying prices.

The best impression from the early 3rd century I've seen is done by Flavius Promotius (below)



Just superb

Good luck.
Theo

[FAVENTIANVS]

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/index.php? ... ail&id=431

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/index.php? ... ail&id=209

http://www.quintagallorum.co.uk/

[Theodosius the Great]

Very nice. My comments were limited to legionary impressions as opposed to auxiliaries (since Gregory seems to want to do the former) :wink:

[Gregory J. Liebau]

Hey,

The one in the red scabbard ? That's the one I have

Yeah, that's the one. I love the look of that sword!

Like I said : you should check around for prices. You can go to Matt Amt's site under "Suppliers" www.larp.com/legioxx and there you'll find many vendors with Deepeeka gear with varying prices.

Yeah, I've been one of the guys who memorizes prices on things from various sites (I have about 200 arms and armor supplier sites saved) for the last two years, and most of the links of Matt's sites are all included!

The best impression from the early 3rd century I've seen is done by Flavius Promotius

Superb, indeed!

Faventianvs,

Thanks for the links. Neat images! Cool squamata! (that's the right term for the scale, right?)

I would probably do legionary, but after thinking about it for a while, I'm leaning away from the impression, for the time being.

But, I still want that darn Spatha!

Cheers!

-Gregory-

[caiusbeerquitius]

Hi!
The sword itself might be O.K.
However, I know several of these, which have a "Fehlschaerfe", the first few centimetres of the blade right above the hilt are not 'sharp'. In case you get one of these, return it and try to get another one. Besides of the Dosenortband and the wooden(?) casing you can throw the scabbard away. It is based on a wrong reconstruction.

You can read more about the pugio here:
link from old RAT
I disencourage you to buy it. One member of our group has one, it's really poor work, and the blade has not the right shape. The scabbard is constructed in a wrong way.

As far as the belts are concerned: Basically all metal belt parts I know from the 3rd century are cast. You might want to look at what is offered here:
www.replik.de
www.hr-replikate.de

Make sure your belt is made of two thin layers of leather, thinned out at the rims. the thinned out part is turned over. Then put the leather stripes back to back and put a thin layer of very fine linen in between. The stitch along the rims with a colored linen thread. Use two needles and one thread. Use colored fine leather for the belt, best would be blue or red.

As for the shield: The best choice is probably a dished round-oval shield like one of these:
[url:6dbt9t8h]http://www.populares-vindelicenses.de/galerie/2005/ladenburg/6.jpg[/url]

As for the body armour: Use either scale or mail armour, the segmentata was quite rare at this time. In Roman Raetia the most findings for this period are scale armour .

I suggest you to make one of the Dura Europos or Halabiyeh Tunics. PM me, if you want to know more.

For the trouser go for the Thorsbjerg one, however cut it off below the knee.

Make sure to make yourself a subarmalis for wear below the armour.

You can use a light pilum, or a hasta, just as you want to.

[Robert Vermaat]

Armor/Lorica

Armor for this period is tough to get, so the best way to go is chainmail with short sleeves. You can find one on [url:pgqr4x75]http://www.lawrensnest.com[/url]

If you do, make sure they send you the correct one. I ordered that one too, but LaWren's Nest sent me a sleeveless and short hamata, then insisted that the image was 'old'. But it's still up, 4 years on! :evil:

[Sassanid]

Hi Gregory,

Here are a couple of pictures that may be of help to you.

First, my 3rd C AD Straubing/Nydam* type spatha. It is a mixture of custom, and off the shelf. Its only serious flaw is its blade cross section. It is diamond rather than lenticular as a 3rd C spatha should be.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/S ... RAUBIN.jpg

Secondly, my pattern welded short sword (semispatha). Based on a find from Kunzing. The scabbard is still in the design stage

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/S ... DSEMIS.jpg

Thirdly a very nice drawing of a Straubing/Nydam type I hope one day to have commisioned.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/S ... alteus.jpg

Finally here a couple of bits and bobs. Showing a planked flat oval shield, an alternative to the dished one Caiustarquitius has shown you.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/S ... 230426.jpg

A subarmalis, which in my case goes under my mail.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/S ... rmalis.jpg

And finally add a socketed pilum or hasta.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/S ... 230401.jpg

* Basically long and thin, as a opposed to the shorter and fatter Lauriacum/Hromowka type

Very nice. My comments were limited to legionary impressions as opposed to auxiliaries (since Gregory seems to want to do the former)

By the end of 1st quarter of the 3rd C you would struggle to tell the difference.

Andrew

[Sassanid]

I would probably do legionary, but after thinking about it for a while, I'm leaning away from the impression, for the time being.

Well lean back again D**M you. We need all the help we can get to keep these 1st century guys at bay :lol:

Andrew

[Gregory J. Liebau]

Thanks again, guys!

Well lean back again D**M you. We need all the help we can get to keep these 1st century guys at bay

I'll try, really. The thing is I DO have four Bronze Age outfits to get into that I really haven't started, and some final touches to do on two that I'm already working on. I think I'm going to interrupt the process of making the last three outfits with whatever later era I choose.

So, I'll finish my two outfits (hopefully in the next month) and then do my first accurate Mycenaean one... THEN, before I move on to the other three, I'll do this, or whatever else I end up choosing.

So, no fear, yet... :p

-Gregory-

[Robert Vermaat]

I would probably do legionary, but after thinking about it for a while, I'm leaning away from the impression, for the time being.

Well lean back again D**M you. We need all the help we can get to keep these 1st century guys at bay :lol:
Andrew

Absolutely! Lean back even further and join the ever growing ranks of us Late Romans!!

[Theodosius the Great]

Here are a couple of pictures that may be of help to you.

Ave, Sassanid

You're wearing the ring belt that Gregory mentioned. I'd like to make one myself. May I ask where you got the parts from ?

By the end of 1st quarter of the 3rd C you would struggle to tell the difference.

Yes, the post-Severan period, roughly speaking

[Sassanid]

Hi Theo,

You're wearing the ring belt that Gregory mentioned. I'd like to make one myself. May I ask where you got the parts from ?

Sure no problem, The leather and the ring came from Le Prevo

http://www.leprevo.co.uk/

The studs were cast for me by Nodge Nolan here in the UK. He probably still has a few. He certainly still has the mold. I believe you already have his details, but if not let me know. He sadly does not have a web site.

The linen for padding out the belt was given to me by another Quinta member. I believe it came from South Shields Market

Andrew