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Thiudareiks Flavius · 05-27-2004, 02:02 AM

Viventia wrote: 
 
Quote:<hr>Sigh! And Welsh, etc. came from the Continent too. I say it again, at what point do immigrants become natives? I guess I feel strongly about this as we now have a well-established black population in Britain, and I want to be inclusive.<hr> 
 
When a language is described as "British" (like the Welsh and Cornish branches of the Celtic family), "Celtic" or "Germanic" it's not (just) their point of origin that is being referred to, it's their structure and which language family they belong to most closely. 
 
English is, therefore, most definitely a "Germanic" language, part of the West Germanic branch of that family and a descendant of Primitive or Common Germanic. "British" is used to refer to the insular branch of the Celtic family, not including Irish. So English is not a "British" language, it's a "Germanic" one. 
Cheers, Tim O'Neill / Thiudareiks Flavius 
 
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05-27-2004, 11:47 AM

Viventia, 
 
Good question. 
 
Immigrants or invaders ? 
 
Immigrants the day they arrive. Subject of course to teh cricket test 
 
Invaders 2-3000 years 
 
Conal

Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus · 05-27-2004, 12:11 PM

since america is the most well known country for recieving imigrants, it is the belief of most Americans that imigrants children will immediatly be considered natives, however they never will be natives. I consider people always being from where they are born. Say for instance, I was born in georgia, but only lived there for two years or so, but I always say that I am from Georgia. And there is a difference from being a citizen and being a native from the country.

rekirts · 05-27-2004, 04:25 PM

When I was 18 I lived in Oxford, England for a year and worked in a shop for awhile. One day a customer asked if I was English, Irish or American. So either my Canadian accent was confusing and unidentifiable, or I had picked up a bit of an English accent after several months there, which made it even more confusing. I know I started talking with a slight regional Irish accent after being in Ireland only a few days. 
 
As for Americans speaking nasally, I have heard it, but it varies with the region. "I am an admirer of the ancients,but not like some people so as to despise the talent of our own times." Pliny the Younger

05-29-2004, 06:40 PM

Yorkton Canada 
 
Hi all. New here. 
 
Excuse the name. It's what I get for being a late comer...all the good ones were taken. :-)

05-29-2004, 09:44 PM

I keep reading here how Americans seem to talk so fast. You never hear a real Okie (a person from Oklahoma) talk, they can put you to sleep waiting on them to get to the point of the conversation. They also sound like Texans with the Yall's 
(the combining of the words you and all). 
When I was in Calgary for a month I started thinking everyone spoke on radios or something. When they thougth it was my turn to talk they seemed to allways say 'eh' at the end of their thoughts.

05-30-2004, 02:29 AM

Hi, 
 
Although I did spend a few years in the Bawstun area, I grew up in the South Berkshires in western Mass. I am aware of no trace of the eastern Mass. accent from about 15 miles inland on. It seems pretty localized up and down the coast there. For my part, I always claim we in western Mass have no accent. There are of course some exceptions, and some real (how to be nice?) hick areas with the sort of Simpsons slack jawed yokel accent. 
 
Now I live in Los Angeles, where accents, if they exist are quickly discarded. Although I'm convinced that no one has actually been born here int years (I only know "like" four natives), the accent consists more of word usage. A liberal sprinkling of "dude", "sweet" and "bitchin", "awesome", and "like" a slew of others I can't think of at the moment, everybody from everywhere sounds pretty much the same. 
 
I've never felt nasel or fast talking, and I will say that when I went to Australia, although they were speaking English all along, it took about three days before I really understood them. BTW, Australia is awesome dude! 
 
Adios, Quintus

DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS · 05-31-2004, 04:30 AM

I was just gonna say, I live in "Cahleefornya" (sorry, I couldna resist). Like, here, it's not much that people, have like an accent, but that they DO just use different words. Like he says, "radical," "bitchin'," "kewl," "omigawd," "totally" etc. When I lived in Virginia, 'twas different -- some of them you could cut their accent w/ a knife. It's also totally true that not all Ami's talk fast. And some of them down home in Virginny and places can be right hard to understand. 
 
What's the difference between Dutch and German? Dutch, TO ME sounds like someone trying to speak German whilst drunk (as I duck into my bunker to avoid the incoming fire). Also, it took me years before I realized that a Scottish accent was different than an English one. It's all British to us ;-ÃƒÆ’Ã…Â¾ 
 
Anyway, we love most of you... BTW, anybody want some of our politicians? Maybe we could exile them ;-) 
Best, DMV DECIMUS MERCATIUS VARIANUS 
 
LEGIO IX HISPANA 
NorCal Chapter 
 
Netscape Aim/AOL screen name: Sturmkatze 
 
Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt.

hansvl · 05-31-2004, 06:33 AM

Actually, German is a regional dialect of Dutch, which is a cleaned-up version of several Flemish dialects put together . Being drunk has nothing to do with it, although,... I'm beginning to believe YOU were drunk, Decimus, when you heard our fine and elegant language . 
 
Speaking of exile, we were just thinking of doing the reverse with our politicians, or at least make them deputy-sheriffs in the new counties you Americans made over here. 
 
Hans

JRSCline · 05-31-2004, 09:34 AM

Ahem, politics bad. 
 
Ever open up one of those "magic eye" books? You know how you have to unfocus your eyes to see the image? 
 
Well, when you unfocus your ears, Dutch actually sounds like English! Hearing Dutch conversations in the background, but not really paying attention, I feel as though I should understand what's being said -- the cadence of the language just feels right. But when I focus on the words themselves, I suddenly realize I have no earthly idea what is being said. It's like having dyslexic ears, listening to Dutch. 
 
Jenny -------------------- "The great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearances, as though they are realities, and are often even more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are." - NiccolÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â³ Machiavelli, The Discourses, 1517.

aitor iriarte · 05-31-2004, 10:24 AM

That's it, I would have said that -grossly exagerating- Dutch sounds like German spoken by English-speakers... 
 
Pijus Magnificus Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=aitoririarte>Aitor Iriarte</A> at: 5/31/04 12:25 pm

**Robert Vermaat** · 05-31-2004, 03:42 PM

Hans, Jenny, Aitor, 
 
A very nice observation. but really, this is not so much of a mystery. Of course, a lot of the early Anglo-saxons came from the area now occupied by The Netherlands and northern Germany. Dutch, as a language, is related to what was spoken in this area. If you'd read a text from northern Germany from as late as the 15th century or so, you would understand it perfectly without any knowledge of German. Tghis form of German (lower German) has gradually been replaced by what today is common or 'high' German. 
 
In short, Dutch is related to the languages that stood at the basis of moden English, and therefore it may sound 'familiar'. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

JRSCline · 06-01-2004, 05:13 AM

Yes, I am familiar with the concept of the Germanic language family, thanks. 
 
However, the "unfocused ears" effect of spoken Dutch on my Anglophone ears is not duplicated by spoken German. (Believe me, I wish it were; it might have been easier to learn after those three years living there! ) 
 
Jenny

Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus · 06-01-2004, 03:04 PM

Suppose you take someone who is a native speaker of english, such as myself. Would it be easier for me at my old age to learn a germanic language over say latin, or would both provide the same difficulty level to learn.

06-01-2004, 03:49 PM

I dunno about latin, learning Dutch is hard enuff 
 
 
 
 
 
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