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05-25-2004, 10:52 AM

I do know that England is different from Britain - that's why I emphasized my native tongue is *English* because I was born in England! You made an interesting assumption there about what I said. Not all English people are arrogant about England, and as an archaeologist interested in the 'Migration Period,' I am well aware of who's what and when. 
 
btw, the Celts migrated from the continent to Britain, so how native are they? At what point do immigrants become 'native'? 
 
My point was I am English and speak English by default because I was born in England. My father's from London, so god knows what's in his 'blood' (it's one of those places which has always absorbed immigrants) and my mother's from Shropshire, so very possibly has Welsh blood (but living directly on the border lands, she never did like her neighbours!) 
 
Though I'd be interested in finding out more about my ancestory, it would be very much an academic exercise, bound in history and probably not particularly relevant to what I am today (unless I had a vested interested in settling old scores or mulling over injustices perhaps, which doesn't help the present). In the end, I was born in England and I can't really claim anything else. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=viventia@romanarmytalk>Viventia</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.tegula.freeserve.co.uk/viv.gif" BORDER=0> at: 5/25/04 1:12 pm

05-25-2004, 12:12 PM

Then my English chum you should have noticed that I was initialy refering to Britain ...not England. I also speak part emoticom but maybe not the same branch as you eh !? Is ther a tongue in cheek one ?? 
 
I did say it was daft ... but it does not do any harm to remind ourselves that British is not necessarily English ... no old scores to settle It is unfortunate that the Brits, not necessarily the English have gotten a reputation for shouting at Johhny Foreigner rather than learn a bit of the lingo ... but we have. 
 
I once spoke to someone who was bemoaning the partition of Ireland who said he could not understand it as "it was not as though they had thier own culture or language or anything" ... it was amusing but in these days of ethnic cleansing .... the chasing out of a culture by ignoring it or denying it exists can hurt too. 
 
I too am a fan of the migration period. 
 
Conal

05-25-2004, 12:28 PM

since I am not from britiain, even though I have family who did come from scottland and ireland, I know nothing about the other languages on the island that you talk about. Like American english and british english, are those other languages a branch of english, meaning do they use the same principles of the language and similar words, or are they completly different from english. And just out of curiosity, when I went to Europe and talked to europeans who were non english native speakers, they mentioned that they can always tell the difference between someone from england and america because we talk through our nose a lot and we talk supposvely very fast. Is that a justifiable assumption.

05-25-2004, 01:45 PM

The languages are decendants of the Celtic/Gaulish language. 
 
They have different route than English which has Germanic roots. 
 
Not sure about the nasal thing with Americans ... cant say i've noticed it. Its a matter of accent ... you can tell someone from the Bronx to a Texan ... I suppose the non English Europeans can tell a Brit from a Yank teh same way. 
 
Conal

05-25-2004, 01:49 PM

thanks for your input. Since I don't know a lot of people from the great island I can not assess the validity of the statements by the europeans I encountered.

05-25-2004, 03:05 PM

Conal, 
 
Excuse me, pal, the last time I looked England was part of Britain, and I guess that means English is a British language, by virtue of it originating on this island? (nb we don't speak German or Danish, now do we?) Obviously, linguistically it's a different ball-game. 
 
I don't need reminding British doesn't necessarily mean English, even if you do btw, I haven't worked out how to put emoticons in the text yet - pardon me, but it's my age. Don't know if this one will work. 
 
You're right, the comment about the partition of Ireland is not amusing, and is definitely based on ignorance. Religious conflicts are the worst ones to try to resolve. 
 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=viventia@romanarmytalk>Viventia</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.tegula.freeserve.co.uk/viv.gif" BORDER=0> at: 5/25/04 5:06 pm

hansvl · 05-25-2004, 06:55 PM

Continental europeans can make a difference between an American and a citizen of the UK just by listening. The Americans are very 'nasal' indeed. You just have to listen to the pronunciation of the letter 'a' and you can make a difference. 
 
Another example of one language with a clear difference of pronunciation is Dutch. You can easily pick out a Flemish person against a Dutchman (nen 'Ollander zoals wij het zeggen ). 
 
Hans

05-25-2004, 07:06 PM

For sure, language is a dead give-away. But that differentiation becomes blurred when the dialects are similar. At least to a non-european...a Canadian like myself with little experience in languages other than french and english would be lost indeed. Magnus/Matt 
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix" 
Niagara Falls, Canada

05-26-2004, 07:30 AM

Viventia, 
 
English originated in England ? I suppose it present form did but it realy came in with the Anglo-Saxons 
 
 
OK you win ..English is the native tongue of England .... but "a" native tongue of Britain ... not "the" native tongue??. 
 
Conal

Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus · 05-26-2004, 12:21 PM

its weird to think that I use my nose more that others who speak a different language when I talk. It seems so routine to me to talk through my nose, that when I did an experiment and decreased amount of air going through my nose when I talked it seemed so odd how much it changed my words. And the reason we talk so fast is that we are used to a fast moving society so we talk the same way we move. And I wonder if Canadians have the same habit of talking through their noses, I know there is nothing I can do to prevent my using my nose when I talk, even if I lived in Europe for twently years it probably would not change.

05-26-2004, 02:53 PM

AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.... 
 
Holy crap that was funny! 
 
Wait, that was meant as a joke/jibe right? 
 
 
On a side note...we canucks tend to have a pronounced "ou" sound, as jenny said, because most of the time we stand around shivering because it's so cold, and our lips get frozen and stuck in an "ou" position when we try and say "it's cooooold." (Ok, so it's not the exact same sound..it's the best I could do on short notice.) 
Magnus/Matt 
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix" 
Niagara Falls, Canada

Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus · 05-26-2004, 03:48 PM

I am not candian and I do not know anybody who lives in canda so i don't know if they talk the same way we do through our noses. It makes no sense for us to be the only ones who do it. You guys are only 300 miles or so north of where I live.

05-26-2004, 04:10 PM

I have no idea...I don't think we have a nasaly sound at all. I don't think any of the americans I've met do either. Magnus/Matt 
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix" 
Niagara Falls, Canada

05-26-2004, 06:05 PM

Paahk ya caah? 
 
Haavaad yaad? Neaah Charlez Rivah? Across Bawstu Haabah? 
 
Drinkin from da bubblah? 
 
Yeah, I'm neaah Woostah. 
 
That sterotypical "Bawstun" accent is overdone, it's not THAT Bad, but "R"'s do seem absent from many of owah waads. 
 
Herez some moreah ways to prahnounce Massaaahchewzets towns and places: 
 
Leominster ("lemon-stir") 
Leicester ("Less-stur") 
Worcester ("Woostah", "Wusstur") 
Peabody ("Peebodaye") 
Haverhill ("hay-vrill") 
Methuen ("methOO-in") 
Lawrence ("lor-rinse") 
Quincy ("kwin-zee") 
Sturbridge ("stirb-ridge") 
Gardner ("Gaahd-nah") 
Cambridge ("cameb-ridge") 
South End (southie ) 
Revere (rev-ear, rev-eah) 
Shrewsbury (shrewz-brey) 
Marlboro/Marlborough (mahl'bro) 
Carlisle (caahl-eyel) 
Brighton (Brii'tun) 
Gloucester (gloss-stuh, gloss'tah) 
Marblehead (maahbull-hed) 
 
And yes, we have a Texas and a Florida in Massachusetts too! 
And you Can't forget Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg 
(Lake Webster, south central MA) 
 
 
 
 
-ANDY aka "Roman Dude" Svaviter in Modo, Fortiter in Re 
 
www.higgins.org

05-26-2004, 08:22 PM

Conal 
 
Sigh! And Welsh, etc. came from the Continent too. I say it again, at what point do immigrants become natives? I guess I feel strongly about this as we now have a well-established black population in Britain, and I want to be inclusive. 
 
I'm also defending the deeply unfashionable Anglo-Saxon corner; a thankless task but some nitwit has to do it 
 
Thank you for saying English is a native tongue of Britain 
 
Viventia

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