Celts/Germanic tribes more advanced in many ways

[rv]

Way of life, superior morals and family life,(not completely of course-Celt rituals)respect for fellow humans,leadership, relative lack of starvation,metal making, better diet...all were more advanced than the Romans in these areas. Their Milty leaders were generally selected for ability ,while the Roman military leaders were politicians. Roman citizens were generally starving and living in deceases infested cities.(for The most part) Slaves were treated disgusting, killing was the norm. Yes there was engineering and architecture(most done by their military) but I still cannot say their society was more advanced. More schizophrenic,yes. The Romans also perhaps fornicated themselves out of existence? Late Romans were mainly Germanic/Celtic blend among others,their purity long gone....perhaps justifiable. Eastern part of the Empire was also corrupt,disease infested(excpt Judea perhaps) and based on human abuse to the maximum.

[Praefectusclassis]

Those are bold statements rv. Care to back them up with sources/references?

Btw, please use at least your real first name in your posts.

[Goffredo]

SIGH
The usual tune that periodically comes up. Remember that Nazism grew up in a Germany that was quite embued with superior race/morality/you- name-it mentality a good 50 years before WW1 hence before corpral Hitler definitely lost his marbles and seduced many to follow. I am not speaking of the ingorant but of many intellectuals and those of the industrious middle class.

You can believe something together with many others (friends, fellow citizens, crowds and masses) but that doesn't make it true. Beliefs versus truth, dreams versus reality..... Some people like to believe in fairy tales (the simple minded), others in ideology (the intellectuals). Critical thinking is a recent phenomenon in culture and at the individual level it is quite rare, difficult to acquire and very easy to loose.

Just watch what happens with this thread

[Tarbicus]

Just wondering how many slaves in Celtic society made it to be the Emperor's right hand man and closest advisor (said to be by some as powerful as the Emperor)? Narcissus springs to mind. Slaves were treated like filth all over. Everywhere was pretty much corrupt also, which still continues to this day.

Cheers.

Hitler? - Never let an artist rule a country.

[floofthegoof]

I was gonna say, in no way was slavery specific to Romans of the time. That's just what happened to people who were captured in war.

[Magnus]

Actually, all of the elements in RV's post can be applied to any society, at any given point in history. Without references it's impossible to pinpoint what he's talking about.

[hoplite14gr]

If we base ourselves on some really gorgeous metalworking findings we can say that some Celtic or Germanic locations must have population groupings with societies complex enough to sustain artisans who could spare alomost all their time to produce masterpieces but so far who can say if it was the exception rather than the norm? Is metallworking only safe to draw asumptions on asociety?.
Geometric Greeks were excelent metal workers but they are are considered culturally inferior to Classical Greeks in other forms of their culture.
Correct me if I am wrong, but most Celts or Germans seem to have been living in conditions similar to the Geometric era where feuding clans could disupt the community life and the road to the neighboring communities was not exactly very safe.
Romans made a number of people to come to terms with them by bringing some semblance of order if nothing else to people tired of strife and feuding. When there were no prolonged civil wars, some tranquility and peace could be found in the Roman empire which it was good if not ideal for human development, and no I do not advocate that Roman Empire was perfect!
Kind regards
Stefanos

[Conal]

"Eastern part of the Empire was also corrupt,disease infested(excpt Judea perhaps) and based on human abuse to the maximum."

Why ?

[Tasciavanous]

Their Milty leaders were generally selected for ability

Were they? I've studied the very limited evidence available on the Britons in quite a bit of detail and I can't think of a single suggestion that the "War Leaders" where selected within a system of meritocracy

while the Roman military leaders were politicians.

Very true but that could be claimed for almost any military high command through to the present day. The fact that the Roman leadership where pursuing a defined career path that embraced the military and legislative cant be used to denigrate there effectiveness in any way.

The Romans also perhaps fornicated themselves out of existence? Late Romans were mainly Germanic/Celtic blend among others,their purity long gone....

Err...... I think you are on very questionable grounds here, both moral and historically demonstrable.

[Goffredo]

:oops:
suprised and somewhat embarssed for you all, angry for myself, that this thread is being taken "seriously". The opening words of RV are to be flushed down a toilet without sophisms or trying to explain where his arguement is faulty.

[Conal]

Goffredo


So it appears he may have been a Troll but I dont think we should get all supperior when some one puts forward a daft supposition and bin it on an assumption of Trollism :?

Dont be embarrassed on my account ...... I knew it was a feather ruffling excersize and in my view its valid to challenge that and havea bit of fun with it :wink:

After all the Romans were an odd lot ... they didn't even lime thier hair or anything, nicked all the good stuff of everyone, brought peace to the Celts & Germans ..who were exceedingly unlikely to have welcomed that !!! What a rotten lot

:twisted:

[hoplite14gr]

While I do understand Goffredo and I do not agree 100% with his point on critical thought, I have to say gentlemen that your postings were a guide for the most impressionable minds to pause, think and examine. My wife says nothing bad happens without some good.
No body has to agree with any person's ideas but at least you all demonstrated that critical thought is not bad while it is backed up by rational arguments and evidence.
For myself I must say that I learned from you, so I thank you.
Kind regards
Stefanos

[Robert Vermaat]

Without 'arvee' reacting to our critics, I suppose we close this thread..

[Tarbicus]

Without 'arvee' reacting to our critics,

He did send me a PM saying I had a good point. Regardless of 'arvee', that's probably a first and I've printed it 20 times in case any copies get damaged :?

[Magnus]

HA!

It may be a good idea to frame one with that special UV protectant glass, so the sun won't destroy the ink or the paper. 8)