How did the Romans silver equipment?

[Caballo]

How did the Romans silver equipment? (I think we can rule out electro plating )

The only three options that I can think of are:-
a/ Objects dipped to molten silver
b/ Objects covered with silver plating compound (as sold on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/silver-plating-co ... dZViewItem )
c/ Silver foil attached to the object (similar to gilding techniques using gold sheet?)

Dipping in molten silver would need a lot of silver; would it obscure the detail on (say) a belt buckle? Also tougher to do in the field.

I've been experiementing with the silver plating compound method, and it does work, and is quick. However, it produces a very thin layer, and needs to be applied about four times before it becomes effective. I have been told that I will need to re-apply it fairly frequently. Tools needed- compound, soft cloth, plus gloves to protect my hands (essential). Questions- are the chemicals in the compound ones that were available to the Romans? Any evidence?

Silver foil attached with tin is mentioned in Armamentarium. Presumably applied using gilding techniques to keep the underlying detail -has anyone tried to re-create this?


Any ideas on other options or what would be most authentic?

Cheers,

Britannicus

[mcbishop]

c), using silver foil soldered in place. Only technique I've ever seen (and I suspect that with a melting point of 1700 degrees F for brass and 1761 for silver, option a) may prove a bit tricky...). The easier option was tinning.

Mike Bishop

[Caballo]

Thanks , Mike.
Having tried a similar exercise with bronze leaf (similar in thickness to gold leaf, but much, much cheaper ), this is extremely fiddly, and tinning would be much easier.

Two questions, if I may:-

-How thick would the foil be?

-Has anyone tried the foil method? Results?

Cheers

Britannicus

[Theodosius the Great]

Ave Britannicus,

Have you tried out the compound method on armor or on a helmet ?

I'd like to try out your silver plating compound method on my brass attic helmet. How many bottles would you say I need to get the right look ?

[Caballo]

Salve Theodosius,

I've trued it on a balteus and a pugio. You need about four coats for the pugio, and it looks good. The balteus (including the danglium) is now at coat number three, and so far the brass is stil showing through.

It also will tarnish like silver (because it is!), so will need a polish with a soft cloth pre parades , and possibly another coat.

So, for a helmet, gven the area, and the multiple coats, and the follow up, I'd recommend a big bottle, or several small ones!

Let me know how you get on.

Cheers
Britannicus

[Matt Lukes]

I've got several silvered pendants and in looking at two of them under magnification, it's quite clear that their obverse surfaces have a thin coating of silver on them. Now this could be silver leaf, although I just read in a book about Roman coins, it's been suggested that in additon to soldered-on leaf, flux + powdered silver melted on to the surface might have been used to coat late copper alloy coins. Certainly this would also result in a thin layer of silver which might not look any different than silver leaf. Given that sterling silver (.925 Ag .770 Cu) melts at 893C, 'coin' silver (.900 Ag, .100 Cu) at 879C, and red brass (closest to orichalcum) melts at around 990C, this would work- especially if an even lower silver-content alloy was used for this decorative purpose.

Matt

[Theodosius the Great]

Britannicus,

So, for a helmet, gven the area, and the multiple coats, and the follow up, I'd recommend a big bottle, or several small ones!

Do you know a supplier who sells the silvering compound ?

Let me know how you get on

I sure will

[Robert Vermaat]

c), using silver foil soldered in place. Only technique I've ever seen (and I suspect that with a melting point of 1700 degrees F for brass and 1761 for silver, option a) may prove a bit tricky...). The easier option was tinning.
Mike Bishop

Hi Mike,

I know a Dutch archaeologist who claims that all Late Roman helmets were tinned, not silvered.
He says that the experts got all their tests wrong or didn't bther to test at all, just assumeing that the helmets were silvered.
He claims that when some tests on other 'silvered' equipment was carried out, it turned out that it was tinned after all. Hence his assumption that Late Roman helmets (most if not all seem to have been silvered) were really just tinned.

Aitor thinks this is not the case, what are your thoughts?

[aitor iriarte]

Oh, no, Robert! :!:
I haven't said such...
Probably my far from good English should be blamed for that... but the covers of the late helmets I have examined by myself (Deurne, Budapest and Intercisa) were embossed silver sheets, mercury gilded. It is quite a different thing to tin a copper alloy or iron object, i.e. to melt a thin metal layer on it, than to wrap the same object in a gilt silver sheet, moreover when a layer of pitch is sandwiched between iron and silver to help keeping the raised embossed motives in shape...

Aitor

[Caballo]

Do you know a supplier who sells the silvering compound ?

The manufacturer is Antiquax of Bristol, although I believe that there is also a US manufacturer (?). The ebay source is the only one I know.
I tried as an experiment to use foil on an old helmet (at last a use for a trooper ), and it is tough to cover it with the foil and get a smooth finish. Mind you, it was a a first attempt......
Cheers
Britannicus

[Theodosius the Great]

The manufacturer is Antiquax of Bristol, although I believe that there is also a US manufacturer (?).

I'll do some checking.

at last a use for a trooper

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[aitor iriarte]

That silvering solution is usually employed to re-silver clocks' chapter dials.
I tried it once (if not from Antiquax, it was not very different) and it silvered over even the inlaid numerals! You would need a polished surface, though, because on my dial the sligtly pitted spots remained discernable from the rest, even if they were perfectly silvered. :?

Aitor

[Robert Vermaat]

Oh, no, Robert! :!:
I haven't said such...

Erm, to get it straight. It was the Dutch arachaeologist who said that Late Roman helmets were tinned, not solvered.
You, on the other hand, did not confirm that.
That right?

[Lvcivs Commodvs Cicero]

I would think that tinning would be a quicker way to make a helmet shiny.

IMHO

[Theodosius the Great]

Britannicus,

I couldn't find the manufacturer for the compound.

Your eBay source hasn't anymore to sell, so I bought some "formula" from here instead :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1

It sounds like the same stuff (I hope)